Awesome stuff Matt! I also can't believe how naive they think everyone is, their response was full of holes. I wonder if they sent their Geneva release out early to divert attention, lol.

 

What does it really matter, the Huayra would have made top of the list regardless what tires were used. We all know the car is stupid fast, so TG is just a TV show like any other, not like if Jeremy says the car is crap that we not going to buy it.

 

Their position on the list has no bearing here - it is the time that counts now and in the future. It matters because whether they would have been at the top of the list or not, every other car has not had the benefit of this extra sticky rubber and unless Top Gear plan to allow future competitors this benefit, all times generated from now on will still be measured against this. It makes for an inaccurate and unfair comparison. It is also in opposition of the rules for them to have run slicks, even if they were modified with tread grooves. The spirit of the rules were clearly broken and if Top Gear staffers were complicit then it paints the whole exercise to be worthless from the viewers perspective.

What Pagani have essentially done is pad their time by a few seconds with the use of what is plainly a race tire - and then they lied about it, twice. How can you suggest that this doesn't matter unless you simply have no interest in the process in the first place?? I don't live for Top Gear or have the Power Lap board in replica on my bedroom wall here, but it was a good measure of a car's performance in the past given the track was mostly the same (weather conditions aside) and the driver was usually the same person. When comparing the performance capabilities of multiple cars you want to take as many variables out of the mix as possible.

>8^)
ER

 

Who cares? This thread has had some 22,000 views, mostly in the last two days.

Maybe the Huayra would have landed on top. Isn't it a shame that Pagani didn't have the confidence in their car to let it run the way it was equipped when Richard Hammond drove it?

Forget the lap time for a moment. Pagani swapped the tires from the PZero Corsas they've always said it uses. When it became evident to anyone who wasn't asleep that they weren't PZero Corsas, they said well there are three kinds of tires it could use, those were Trofeos. When it was pointed out that the Power Lap tires didn't look anything like Trofeos, they said "oh not those Trofeos". If memory serves, they then said that there is yet ANOTHER tire on which the Huayra performs even better.

At first I was almost resigned to their answer, as I figured that was as good as we were going to get.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was an insult to the intelligence of anyone who's been following this story. Tires that began life as racing slicks are not street legal, period. To insinuate so implies a sort of arrogance against the enthusiast public that I can't imagine Mr. Pagani would endorse.

And yet still there are a few True Believers out there who are still holding out hope that maybe those tires really are street legal as Pagani says. The final act here is to give these people what they're looking for. I'm almost there.

Pagani could have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they had jus said right away, "You know what, you got us, we were just playing. We'll be right back up there for another go." They've got themselves painted into a corner now, however. How much more stupid do your want them to show you they think you are?

If all this doesn't bother you in any way then I don't know why you read the thread this far.

 

Memory doesn't serve apparently...

Pagani didn't state there was a fourth, even faster tire, merely that they feel they can run even faster on the supposed "Trofeo" tires.

Sorry for any undue confusion on this point.

 

The funny part is in the initial press release (here), they expressed surprise the car was this fast -

When caught lying, somehow that turned to, "oh, it can go even faster". I don't know, maybe some red meat for the true believers.

BTW, the least they can do is correct that press release which still claims the car used Corsas which is a flat out lie.

 

Man seriously.. lets just reel it in abit here.

Me being a Huge Pagani fan like you are a Mclaren fan.

Despite that i know:
This is not good for paganis image.
It is pretty evident for anyone that those tires are not street legal.
It is pretty evident that they did it to gain position/time on the board.
It is pretty evident that they were not honest in the first press release where they said it used the Corsas.
And it is also very evident that they must have been hallucinating when they in their last email said its a street legal tire.

But some here are taking this to extremes by trying to lay it all on Pagani.

You say its unfair.. i say the TG staff is not blind..they must have known..and if they know..what other benefits do they give to OTHER car company's that are 100 times larger than pagani when they run their laps?

How can you blame it all on pagani, and then go on and assume that EVERY other test is done by the rules?

How about we at this point..start to question Top Gear abit..

As they are the ones that conduct the test, it is up to them to see to it that the rules are followed.

Its like in F1..its not the teams that see to it that the rules are followed..its the FIA.

If ANYTHING this brings down the credibility of TG and their power lap board..

We all know what pagani can do and has done.. with or without special tires for over a decade now!

I see it veeeeerrry unlikely that TG didnt know..and i see it even increasingly unlikely..that the establishment are forced to the rules..while tiny pagani gets to have a ****ing field day!

PS
Not directed at any specific member, certainly not Peloton:

I find it pathetic the way some people has just come to this forum of lately in an attempt to troll pagani..or fuel the fire.
Lets try to keep it to the facts..and the real questions that should be asked.
As the eyes of the automotive world are on this thread, so please keep it professional as matt and everyone else has up until recently.

 

Ok Peloton, I understand you are not pleased, but I again ask you to put this into perspective. Let’s not forget that your beloved McLaren incurred the largest fine ever imposed in motor racing history of $100 million in 2007 for cheating. In case anyone has forgotten the details are here:

Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website

To a lesser degree others have done very similar things all in the hope of gaining an edge. As the Artist has stated people seem to be jumping on the band wagon now just to have a dig.

It was a silly thing to do, will it affect sales, I suspect not? A few of the Pagani people will have to duck a few embarrassing questions next week in Geneva but the stand will still be over flowing with punters and deals will be done I have no doubt.

In these circumstances when found out is always best to own up straight away and take it on the chin. That way your pursuers have no where to go. If you try to play them it just adds fuel to the fire. Pagani will learn from this and move on

 

Well stated, Artist. I probably let the quality of my own posts slip a little yesterday as well, witness my little mistake above.

As you say, it's pretty clear at this point what Pagani was up to. That they've managed to bungle the PR so badly is surprising.

However, it's also clear that there were a number of people on site at Dunsfold who certainly were aware of what was going on, first and foremost the Stig. The Flickr photo set taken by Rowan Horncastle, "for Top Gear", is curious as well: why so much attention paid to the tires? I postulated once previously that perhaps the nature of these photographs was deliberate.

However it occurred to me last night as I turned in and was thinking about how to clear up the street-legal nature of the Power Lap tires: who would best be able to speak on this topic? Pirelli.

If Pagani wishes to state that the Power Lap tires are indeed street legal, then to satisfy that claim all we need is a statement from their partner Pirelli saying that they are. And yet during this entire process Pirelli has remained strangely silent.

It's most probable that Pagani came to Pirelli with a request to create the Power Lap tires. Did Pirelli have an idea why they wanted these tires? Did they know what they were to be used for? Were there Pirelli techs on site at Dunsfold? If the answer is yes to any one of these questions then they are as complicit as are Pagani.

I don't think anyone should hold their breath waiting for a press release from Pirelli stating that the Power Lap tires are street legal. It's my assumption that we will never see another set again (in fact I might wager the originals have been destroyed). But some kind of statement from Pirelli might be in order at this point.

As from Top Gear as well. I don't know how the show operates but based on the dates of Rowan Horncastle's photos it's clear that Richard Hammond drove the car on a different date than the Stig did. So I can't say whether any of the hosts were on site for the Power Lap. But obviously a number of Top Gear staffers were. If any of them were aware what was going on, they too have kept silent and can be said to be complicit as well.

One final thing -- Of the major automotive print media outlets I personally tipped on this story, not a one has yet to say a word about it in their online presence. I suspect this is because not one of them wanted to touch it, because of the possible implications. Relations with the manufacturers are highly important to them, I suspect.

A lot of the online blogs have performed no better, Jalopnik going so far as to say "So there you have it" in regard to Pagani's statement, and then hoping that would be universally accepted. As I said before, most of the online blogs have been entirely devoid of self-generated commentary and analysis on the subject. A few have even failed to note the original source of the story!

 

My question is the same one Chris Harris had of Ferrari in his "Spins" article: Why?

Would it have been so bad if the Huayra came in behind the Atom or 12C on the power board? Everyone knows its fast, bespoke and has craftsmanship second to none. I really don't think Pagani's reputation will suffer terribly in the long run, but it would go a long way to simply be truthful. Run the lap again with standard tires and just take the new time like a champ. Own it.

I do think it hurts Top Gear more, as they seem to favor Pagani. Maybe the presenters didn't know, but I find it hard to believe someone not questioning why they switched tires for the lap. Even if they were cut to look like Corsas.

Lets face it, everyone has tried to maximize their exposure on the Top Gear stage. Many have probably cheated, but not everyone gets caught.

Build the best car you can. Put everything you've got into it. Sit back and be proud.