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Pagani Huayra, Koenigsegg Agera R or Bugatti Veyron SS

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Old Mar 15, 2012 | 07:09 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Jiaim
that is a truly supercar engine, light, powerfull, highest nominal power, highest nominal torque... nice



Engine in detail Koenigsegg Agera R by Christian von Koenigsegg - YouTube

Your right, I think that is a great engine and a major step up from their original supercharged engine which to be honest was not that great. The engine block is produced in England by the way
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ludas

About Pagani trying to justify its choice of engine with some kind of vision, it makes about as much sense as Lambo's awkward explanation why the Aventador doesn't have a dct. "Emotion and analogue feel" Every single car journalist has critizised the Aventador's gear box since it just isn't up to modern standards. Same thing for the Huayra engine...
Too be fair no one outside of the factory has driven the new car yet. Pagani where never going to be able to use a NA V12 in the new car because AMG could not supply them with one that could comply with their needs and meet international emissions standards.

So let’s wait and see what the testers say over the next few months. As to whether it was a good desision, well the 85 orders in the bag seem to vindicate them
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by streetrod454
Too be fair no one outside of the factory has driven the new car yet. Pagani where never going to be able to use a NA V12 in the new car because AMG could not supply them with one that could comply with their needs and meet international emissions standards.

So let’s wait and see what the testers say over the next few months. As to whether it was a good desision, well the 85 orders in the bag seem to vindicate them
All true, and it was for the same reason Lambo couldn't put a dct in the Aventador. Audi couldn't supply them with one that could handle the torque and power.

About the 85 orders, I think Pagani has to thank its previous success with the Zonda for most of those order. As you said yourself, no one outside the factory has driven the car yet.
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by streetrod454
Your right, I think that is a great engine and a major step up from their original supercharged engine which to be honest was not that great. The engine block is produced in England by the way
just need a flat plane crank !
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 12:20 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Ludas
It's not a mistake. I'm gonna quote my friend D55L from a while back when we first learned about which engine Pagani was gonna use for the Huayra.



If you had been around a little longer on this forum you would know he is a very knowledgeable guy and always has the inside scoops on everything. Before the release of the Huayra there was a thread where we hade many discussions about Pagani's choice of engine and to sum up most of us were very dissapointed.

It's a reworked version of the engine from the SL 65 Black Series. Is the Black Series a race car? No, just as little as any other AMG converted Benz. It redlined under 6k rpm... An engine like the M275 6 l V12 bi-turbo is built for an Autobahn racer, not a hypercar like a Pagani. Sure it's about personal taste but an ultra exotic like a Pagani shouldn't sound like a vacuum cleaner which just sucked up a frog.

About Pagani trying to justify its choice of engine with some kind of vision, it makes about as much sense as Lambo's awkward explanation why the Aventador doesn't have a dct. "Emotion and analogue feel" Every single car journalist has critizised the Aventador's gear box since it just isn't up to modern standards. Same thing for the Huayra engine...
Um but the engine in the Huayra is not the M275 its the M158.

Configuration Mercedes-Benz / AMG M158 60º V12
Location Mid, longitudinally mounted
Construction aluminium block and head
Displacement 5.98 liter / 364.9 cu in
Valvetrain 4 valves / cylinder, DOHC
Fuel feed Fuel Injection
Aspiration Twin Turbo
Power 730 bhp / 537 KW
Torque 1000 Nm / 738 ft lbs
BHP/Liter 117 bhp / liter

How is this the M275 which is a 3 valve SOHC?

The engine in the Zonda was never a supercar engine at Mercedes either, but they made magic with it.
So i have faith in this engine.

When you say that Pagani had no other choice? I mean do you really belive that yourself, you think Mercedes shoved a engine down his throat?
He could have kept the 7.3 V12 or even go for the 6.0 from the Zonda R for the Huayra.

But it seems like this is what he wanted.

Now if its not to your taste, ile respect that.

But it sure as hell isn't any old engine of the shelf, nor is it forced upon pagani.
 

Last edited by La Artist; Mar 15, 2012 at 12:22 PM.
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 12:36 PM
  #76  
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I'd like to go back to something said on page one: How do we know the Agera R isn't faster than the Veyron? The Agera R has nearly as much horsepower. Even on gasoline it makes almost 1000, and it weighs half a ton less. It also doesn't have the driveline losses of a transfer case and FWD components. To my (admittedly uneducated) eye it also has less frontal area. So if and when the Agera R's top speed is properly tested, I would be not at all surprised if it tops the Veyron, and the SS model even at that. Let's not forget that a CCR went 240 with a mere 800 horsepower, and that was done at the circular Nardo track, with the scrubbing losses that implies.

As for the frequency of new Koenigsegg versions, follow the history 2001-present; CC8S/CCR/CCX/Agera series (discounting bifuel versions). It's not spaced that much differently than Ferrari in the same time frame with the 360/430/458 series (discounting spider and Scuderia versions). When taken as a percentage of Koenigsegg's extrememly low production, the numbers of each version made are about the same relative to the total, as Ferrari with each of its successive generations. And for what it's worth, Koenigseggs are probably equally as evolutionary as Ferrari (308/328/348/355/360/430/458).

The choice between the three comes down pretty much to blonde/brunette/redhead. Each offers a unique experience in its own right, it's just a matter of what your looking for out of your seven figure automobile. They Veyron is a technical masterpiece, but not much of a driver's car. Saying it handles better than expected and considering its weight is damning with faint praise. It's essentially a low, mid-engined, extremely fast Bentley. Your mom could drive it and never know it's a 250mph car. And compared to the other two, it's a bit too common and boring to look at.

My education on Pagani was lacking until the debut of the Huayra, but I have come to appreciate the design details. Nothing else in the world is like it, and by all accounts it is an excellent performer. Not everyone likes that much flash however. Between the Huayra and the Agera, the owner of the Agera is more likely to be a guy who owns his own driving suit.

Not that I'll ever be presented with the opportunity to make the choice, but for me it would be the Koenigsegg. Of course, I'm a fanboy, but that's because I like the lunatic fringe aspect. Ferrari and Lamborghini watch very closely what each other does, and we know what the Germans can do, and then there is this nut up in Sweden doing his own, completely different thing, and somehow is still around after all these years and making money. The styling may be old but it certainly isn't derivative of anything else. I've read that Koenigseggs can be a bit challenging to drive, and I think that's how it should be. A 1000 horsepower car should put you on notice every time you drive it, and that thrill is kind of the point of buying a car like that.

If I had a proper garage (think JPCourt), and I already had a Koenigsegg, and another million dollar slot in there to fill, I might consider also getting one of the others as well, but I would lean towards the Huayra. But if I can only have one, it's Koenigsegg all the way.
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 03:10 PM
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If you want a piece of art you should buy the Pagani. If you want a madness machine, please buy the Agera. If you want a refined car with lots of tamed horses and more "blue blood" than "a pair of big balls" you should buy the boring Bugatti.
 

Last edited by Amzamus; Mar 15, 2012 at 03:12 PM.
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 03:16 PM
  #78  
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BUGATTI!

Veyron is more airplane than a car!
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mattjs33
.

As for the frequency of new Koenigsegg versions, follow the history 2001-present; CC8S/CCR/CCX/Agera series (discounting bifuel versions). It's not spaced that much differently than Ferrari in the same time frame with the 360/430/458 series (discounting spider and Scuderia versions). When taken as a percentage of Koenigsegg's extrememly low production, the numbers of each version made are about the same relative to the total, as Ferrari with each of its successive generations. And for what it's worth, Koenigseggs are probably equally as evolutionary as Ferrari (308/328/348/355/360/430/458).
Sorry Matt but being a bit pedantic, the complete Koenigsegg line is:
CC8S
CCGT
CCR
CCX
CCXR
CCXR Edition
CCX Edition
Trivita
CCXR Special edition
Agera
Agera R

That's a lot of cars in 11 years.

As for the top speed and weight, weight actually has little effect on top speed would you believe. As an illustration you will find that land speed record cars are always very heavy
 
Old Mar 15, 2012 | 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by streetrod454
That's a lot of cars in 11 years.
A lot of cars, but basically the same. They are like facelifts. All of them are versions of the CC. CC means "Competition Coupe". Some of the he original CC prototypes:



 

Last edited by Amzamus; Mar 15, 2012 at 04:17 PM.



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