Next-gen Vette gets small V8 says Autocar
Jun 6, 2011 | 04:23 AM
#51
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,177
From: Stockholm
Unless GM does a major interior upgrade and fits the Corvette with an ENTIRELY new engine, like descibed in OP, the car will never be a success anywhere but the states.
People elsewhere want cars to be up to date and have as much new technology as possible. I don't know how long they have used the same engine with small upgrades but it's been too long for anyone outside the US to even care about this car anymore.
I think the idea behind this hi-revving v8 is great, I'm just not sure GM knows how to build an engine like that properly. Let's hope I'm wrong.
People elsewhere want cars to be up to date and have as much new technology as possible. I don't know how long they have used the same engine with small upgrades but it's been too long for anyone outside the US to even care about this car anymore.
I think the idea behind this hi-revving v8 is great, I'm just not sure GM knows how to build an engine like that properly. Let's hope I'm wrong.
Jun 6, 2011 | 06:42 AM
#52
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 67
From: Maryland
This is the essence of my problem with the domestic mindset.
Before you even get out the gate it's an assumption you should expect less- and if you don't you're a jerk.
The interior should be any easy fix. It requires minimal engineering. Keep it simple and don't use crap plastic all over the place. My fear is they will swing it to the other extreme and try and made it look uber futuristic and thus a mess.
Quality and function should dictate the form.
Before you even get out the gate it's an assumption you should expect less- and if you don't you're a jerk.
The interior should be any easy fix. It requires minimal engineering. Keep it simple and don't use crap plastic all over the place. My fear is they will swing it to the other extreme and try and made it look uber futuristic and thus a mess.
Quality and function should dictate the form.
Last edited by ALMS21; Jun 6, 2011 at 06:43 AM.
Jun 6, 2011 | 05:26 PM
#53
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 779
From: PA, USA
The styling of the Vette from the doors back is what makes it what it is. Those wide rear arches are a thing of beauty on the GS, Z06 and ZR1. Won't address the transverse leaf springs (already been done...either you get it or you dont). Many on here and other forums seem to think that a McPhearson strut suspension is something novel
The C6R uses a coilover setup and dominates. Not sure I know of any modern race car (or other sports car) with leaf springs. There are plenty of reasons why they are great, and plenty of reasons why they aren't. We can go on and on but the fact of the matter is most people don't want to use them. You're right, some people like them. I just don't.
I'd never cross shop a Vantage V8 with a Vette. They are two completely different cars. One is a sportscar (and nothing else) and one is a GT car that gets beat in the performance dept by many others at a fraction of the cost. Ok, I agree with this. Take a used Vantage out of the equation.
You talk about how big the Vette is and in the same post talk about luring you away from a GTR ---- a car that is more than half a foot longer. Are you aware that a C6 Vette is the same size as a Porsche 997? The Vette also gets better gas mileage than both the Porsche and GTR. I want a smaller Vette because the styling bothers me and I want a more nimble car. The GTR might be the size of a truck, but they've made it ridiculously fast. Kind of like how the 911 can now handle well despite the engine being in the rear.
Do you think Porsche should move their engine in the 911 to the middle as well? Absolutely. The Cayman R seems to have many people thinking the same thing. In fact, I don't have any doubt that a $100k mid-engined Porsche, given the chance to beat the 911, would be significantly better behaved in corners and under braking. It won't have the character of the 911, but I bet Porsche's engineers could easily create a new benchmark for sports cars if they were allowed. It's obvious they are trying.
I commend Porsche for making the 911 actually work well, but that doesn't make it ideal.
The only thing the Vette needs is a better interior to lure some from the Euro's. However, even if they do up the anty on the interior there are still those that are badge snobs that wouldn't be caught dead in a Corvette or any other car made in America. Sorry, it is what it is.That's very true. There is a real badge problem. Then again, people are shelling out $80,000+ for a Nissan and many hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Lexus, so it's pretty clear that an incredible product stands on it's own reputation.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that each of the Vette's direct competition does something much better - the 911 balance and feel and interior, the GT-R outright speed, etc. That being said, if GM makes some improvements, specifically to the interior and driving dynamics and feel, many people will be interested (me included.)
The C6R uses a coilover setup and dominates. Not sure I know of any modern race car (or other sports car) with leaf springs. There are plenty of reasons why they are great, and plenty of reasons why they aren't. We can go on and on but the fact of the matter is most people don't want to use them. You're right, some people like them. I just don't.I'd never cross shop a Vantage V8 with a Vette. They are two completely different cars. One is a sportscar (and nothing else) and one is a GT car that gets beat in the performance dept by many others at a fraction of the cost. Ok, I agree with this. Take a used Vantage out of the equation.
You talk about how big the Vette is and in the same post talk about luring you away from a GTR ---- a car that is more than half a foot longer
. Are you aware that a C6 Vette is the same size as a Porsche 997? The Vette also gets better gas mileage than both the Porsche and GTR. I want a smaller Vette because the styling bothers me and I want a more nimble car. The GTR might be the size of a truck, but they've made it ridiculously fast. Kind of like how the 911 can now handle well despite the engine being in the rear.Do you think Porsche should move their engine in the 911 to the middle as well? Absolutely. The Cayman R seems to have many people thinking the same thing. In fact, I don't have any doubt that a $100k mid-engined Porsche, given the chance to beat the 911, would be significantly better behaved in corners and under braking. It won't have the character of the 911, but I bet Porsche's engineers could easily create a new benchmark for sports cars if they were allowed. It's obvious they are trying.
I commend Porsche for making the 911 actually work well, but that doesn't make it ideal.
The only thing the Vette needs is a better interior to lure some from the Euro's. However, even if they do up the anty on the interior there are still those that are badge snobs that wouldn't be caught dead in a Corvette or any other car made in America. Sorry, it is what it is.That's very true. There is a real badge problem. Then again, people are shelling out $80,000+ for a Nissan and many hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Lexus, so it's pretty clear that an incredible product stands on it's own reputation.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that each of the Vette's direct competition does something much better - the 911 balance and feel and interior, the GT-R outright speed, etc. That being said, if GM makes some improvements, specifically to the interior and driving dynamics and feel, many people will be interested (me included.)
Maybe this will make you feel better, too. If the Z06 was a little cheaper it would have been at the top of my list. For the sheer difference in acceleration compared to the Elise, while still maintaining most of it's handling capabilities, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it just as much. I would have also stripped out the interior the first day home.
Last edited by diskreet; Jun 6, 2011 at 05:30 PM.
Jun 6, 2011 | 05:56 PM
#54
This won't end well
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,520
From: Living rent free in your head
Both drivers weren't that great...
YouTube - ‪Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Supercharged vs Koenigseg CCXR‬‏
YouTube - ‪Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Supercharged vs Koenigseg CCXR‬‏
Jun 6, 2011 | 09:00 PM
#56
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 67
From: Maryland
Wow, lot's happened since I've been here last lol. Comments in bold above
Maybe this will make you feel better, too. If the Z06 was a little cheaper it would have been at the top of my list. For the sheer difference in acceleration compared to the Elise, while still maintaining most of it's handling capabilities, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it just as much. I would have also stripped out the interior the first day home.
Maybe this will make you feel better, too. If the Z06 was a little cheaper it would have been at the top of my list. For the sheer difference in acceleration compared to the Elise, while still maintaining most of it's handling capabilities, I'm sure I would have enjoyed it just as much. I would have also stripped out the interior the first day home.
btw -- I seriously considered getting the 3LT option (non full leather) and going this route with my GS. This is an interior done by Apsis (has matching door panels as well but do not have pics of those) that would run you about $7-8K.
Last edited by ALMS21; Jun 6, 2011 at 09:05 PM.
Jun 6, 2011 | 11:41 PM
#58
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 873
From: Minnesota US
That looks like they actually cared about what it was like inside the car to feel the materials. Now to make it aesthetically pleasing.
Not overly designed like the Stingray concept, not hammered together by a committee.
Thoughtfully organized. Which is where I was posting examples of well thought out interiors. Subtract some of the expense of some of those interiors, and you can still have a nice place to be.
At the end of the day, the only use you get out of the car is behind the wheel.
Not overly designed like the Stingray concept, not hammered together by a committee.
Thoughtfully organized. Which is where I was posting examples of well thought out interiors. Subtract some of the expense of some of those interiors, and you can still have a nice place to be.
At the end of the day, the only use you get out of the car is behind the wheel.
Jun 7, 2011 | 12:33 AM
#59
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 515
From: Atlanta
Im not much of an interior person....as long as it doesnt start falling apart after 2 years of ownership im good. As for the corvette, I think the current platform is awesome and is a lot of car for the money(especially the Z06/ZR1).
....the powerplant, I just hope the new 5.5L engine is 'thick' like the LS2/LS3....people like myself are definitely going to want more cubes out of it.
Sent from my ROOTED Defy using Teamspeed
....the powerplant, I just hope the new 5.5L engine is 'thick' like the LS2/LS3....people like myself are definitely going to want more cubes out of it.
Sent from my ROOTED Defy using Teamspeed
Jun 7, 2011 | 09:39 AM
#60
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
Sorry, off topic...
Diskreet, I agree with your response to this. No matter how good 911's get, the only compelling reason for their engines to be where they are, is tradition. If an engineer were to pick the worst place on a car in which to locate the engine, it would be hanging out back behind the rear axle.
Diskreet, I agree with your response to this. No matter how good 911's get, the only compelling reason for their engines to be where they are, is tradition. If an engineer were to pick the worst place on a car in which to locate the engine, it would be hanging out back behind the rear axle.
