CGT Design Flaw??
Oct 5, 2009 | 09:26 AM
#31
Teamspeed Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 104
I think blaming the traction control for not being able to correct a driving error, is pretty petty. We are not talking about a Ford Escape here. We have all made silly mistakes while driving, but I am not about to blame a car or its manufacturer for the inability of a "driving assist" to overcome my error.
As a proud owner of a CGT, I will say that this car is one of the least forgiving cars that I have driven. It is also one of the most rewarding. The Carrera GT doesn't have the safety net that most other cars do. It responds as quickly to your inputs as if it were fed impulses from the brain. VERY few cars come close to that sense of feeling.
My suggestion to perspective owners, is not to buy this without giving some serious thought about your driving ability. If you don't feel like you have polished skills when driving a high powered vehicle, stay far away from this car. If you just want to look good, buy another exotic that is fitted with a sequential transmission and a half dozen other electronic driver's aids.
I guess if there is to be a flaw with this car, it is that Porsche made it too good. They made it so sharp and precise that the average person is not skilled enough to drive it effectively. I don't see why the car should be chastised because it takes more skill to drive than others.
As a proud owner of a CGT, I will say that this car is one of the least forgiving cars that I have driven. It is also one of the most rewarding. The Carrera GT doesn't have the safety net that most other cars do. It responds as quickly to your inputs as if it were fed impulses from the brain. VERY few cars come close to that sense of feeling.
My suggestion to perspective owners, is not to buy this without giving some serious thought about your driving ability. If you don't feel like you have polished skills when driving a high powered vehicle, stay far away from this car. If you just want to look good, buy another exotic that is fitted with a sequential transmission and a half dozen other electronic driver's aids.
I guess if there is to be a flaw with this car, it is that Porsche made it too good. They made it so sharp and precise that the average person is not skilled enough to drive it effectively. I don't see why the car should be chastised because it takes more skill to drive than others.
Don't berate the car for driver error, we should applaud the fact that such Porsche made such a focused vehicle.
Oct 5, 2009 | 09:37 AM
#32
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,264
I dislike all forms of factory electronic nannyism. At times, an unexpected reduction in power can be as dangerous as too much, and I prefer to control that with my right foot.
The only exception are variable traction systems like Racelogic which are actually quite good and useful, though they are fully programmable and I can set them up the way I like them.
I also wanted to experience the cars as they were intended, and yes, was being quite naughty. Still, I didn't find the car difficult to drive at all. It certainly requires every bit of attention you can muster, but that's the way it should be.
The only exception are variable traction systems like Racelogic which are actually quite good and useful, though they are fully programmable and I can set them up the way I like them.
I also wanted to experience the cars as they were intended, and yes, was being quite naughty. Still, I didn't find the car difficult to drive at all. It certainly requires every bit of attention you can muster, but that's the way it should be.
Oct 5, 2009 | 10:00 AM
#33
Teamspeed MVP
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,000
From: Mach 2 and above
Very informative responses from the owners of the machines. It appears that everyone of them have commented that driver error is exactly that. This machine was not for the faint of heart and demands the attention of an individual with advanced skills or a greatly degree of respect for it's capabilities.
For one to blame the machine because of "Lack of Respect" for it's horse power to weight ratio is a cop-out to me... You knew what you were buying and to tempt fate without having the skill level and knowledge to adjust accordingly is not rational to me...
Thanks to all the CGT owners for calling a Spade a Spade and giving solice to us that dream of owning this machine in our future~Pops
For one to blame the machine because of "Lack of Respect" for it's horse power to weight ratio is a cop-out to me... You knew what you were buying and to tempt fate without having the skill level and knowledge to adjust accordingly is not rational to me...
Thanks to all the CGT owners for calling a Spade a Spade and giving solice to us that dream of owning this machine in our future~Pops
Oct 5, 2009 | 10:20 AM
#34
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,885
From: Maryland
I am one hundred percent with everybody that it is driver error and the design to be blamed for TC NOT saving someones mishandling of the car. It's like driving without a seatbelt and then blaming the airbag designer when you still get hurt in a frontal accident. When you push the car beyond it's capabilties and you cannot correct for it - it is your fault.
I was sure that we would see a lot of heated debate the other way.
I was sure that we would see a lot of heated debate the other way.
Oct 5, 2009 | 11:24 AM
#35
Thread Starter
| Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,067
From: StoryBook
All fantastic responses. TS is the bomb!
I was made aware of this last incident by the owner himself. After our conversation I immediately called up my service advisor and inquired about any "failures" he had heard about in the CGT TC or braking systems. After our lengthy discussion, I came away even more convinced that it was more a combination of a beast of a car intersecting with inability of the operator that led to the majority of these crashes. Lets keep these revelations at the forefront for the benefit of not only current owners but future ones as well.
I was made aware of this last incident by the owner himself. After our conversation I immediately called up my service advisor and inquired about any "failures" he had heard about in the CGT TC or braking systems. After our lengthy discussion, I came away even more convinced that it was more a combination of a beast of a car intersecting with inability of the operator that led to the majority of these crashes. Lets keep these revelations at the forefront for the benefit of not only current owners but future ones as well.
Oct 5, 2009 | 11:37 AM
#36
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,343
Wow, great thread. Subscribed!
The CGT remains one of my favorite cars of all time. It's a car that demands (and rightfully so) your full attention. And with it, it rewards you mile after mile. Kudos to Porsche, and to the lucky owners that drive them accordingly.
The CGT remains one of my favorite cars of all time. It's a car that demands (and rightfully so) your full attention. And with it, it rewards you mile after mile. Kudos to Porsche, and to the lucky owners that drive them accordingly.
Oct 5, 2009 | 12:14 PM
#39
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,647
From: Munich,Germany
I assume most of you know him or this video
YouTube - Carrera GT mit Tim Schrick
As far as I know the CGT wasn`t even developed for street use in the first place,so it`s no suprise that it is so capable
the guy in the video also says that the CGT is not as much of a diva as many claim midengine cars to be..
he says it delivers a lot of information on the cars movements and the response to inputs is is very controlled and you never feel that the car gets out of control while pushing it hard(er)
The TC acts in a very sensitive and does not intervene any movements but supports the driver in a good way.
He also mentions that the tires work very well together with the car
in another epsidoe he tested a Viper and called it "dangerous" and "toxic" as the Viper bites without any hints and out of nowhere..
YouTube - Carrera GT mit Tim Schrick
As far as I know the CGT wasn`t even developed for street use in the first place,so it`s no suprise that it is so capable
the guy in the video also says that the CGT is not as much of a diva as many claim midengine cars to be..
he says it delivers a lot of information on the cars movements and the response to inputs is is very controlled and you never feel that the car gets out of control while pushing it hard(er)
The TC acts in a very sensitive and does not intervene any movements but supports the driver in a good way.
He also mentions that the tires work very well together with the car
in another epsidoe he tested a Viper and called it "dangerous" and "toxic" as the Viper bites without any hints and out of nowhere..
Oct 5, 2009 | 12:27 PM
#40
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 307
The OP asks if there is a "design flaw" well I would say that yes there is....
Porsche have shown with the 997GT2 and the new 997GT3 that they can developeTC/PSM systems which really enhance the driving experience and which can be switched off in two stages should the driver want the full fat version, this IMO should have been on the CGT, that is the design flaw nothing else....
Porsche have shown with the 997GT2 and the new 997GT3 that they can developeTC/PSM systems which really enhance the driving experience and which can be switched off in two stages should the driver want the full fat version, this IMO should have been on the CGT, that is the design flaw nothing else....