So long Carrera GTS!
#52
05-04-2012 | 12:55 AM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 173
I have driven a 991S and a 991S cab many times. Eventually, I will buy some variation of it since there will be no more new 997's left, but for now, I much prefer my GTS.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
Ah that was your thread reviewing the 991! I did read that, in fact I referenced how one particular review had prepared me for not expecting much from the 991 and it was your thread!
I don't completely disagree with you and I really didn't have enough time driving the 997s or the 991 in my review. Also the 997s had been sitting and had horrible flat spots on the tires that certainly didn't help.
But I did prefer the 991 in every way and I think there is a tendency to romanticize past generations of model years and at the same time there is something 'lost' each generation as well.
I don't completely disagree with you and I really didn't have enough time driving the 997s or the 991 in my review. Also the 997s had been sitting and had horrible flat spots on the tires that certainly didn't help.
But I did prefer the 991 in every way and I think there is a tendency to romanticize past generations of model years and at the same time there is something 'lost' each generation as well.
#53
05-04-2012 | 05:15 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 629
From: Bavaria
I have driven a 991S and a 991S cab many times. Eventually, I will buy some variation of it since there will be no more new 997's left, but for now, I much prefer my GTS.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
#54
05-06-2012 | 05:27 AM
MrTheBadGuy
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,121
I have driven a 991S and a 991S cab many times. Eventually, I will buy some variation of it since there will be no more new 997's left, but for now, I much prefer my GTS.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
Romance? I always buy the latest and have no tendency to keep cars beyond obsolescence. I had the first 996, 996.2, 996tt, 996 GT3' 997S, 997TT, 997.2S, 997.2S, etc. I do, however, like to feel like going fast. To me, in a street car, it is much more important to have the sensation of speed than actual speed. I think the 997 does that much better than the 991.
#56
05-06-2012 | 11:38 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 475
From: NYC
Mark,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said there's a tendency to romanticize about past generations. The 993 is as far back as I can remember (I'm showing my age), and when the 996 was released, it was, "OMG, the air-cooled era is over", when the 997.1 changed engines away from the GT1 block, everyone (including me) was worried that the 997.2 and future models wouldn't be the same. Now we are on to the 991 and we are worried that the car is too techie, and has lost it's soul.
I think the bottom line is Porsche has been at the 911 almost 50 years now and I think it's safe to say that they know that they are doing and who their consumers are. With all the variants of the 997 (even though we make fun) there is something for everyone. Porsche has become very intelligent at becoming marketable to almost every demographic. There is no substitute.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said there's a tendency to romanticize about past generations. The 993 is as far back as I can remember (I'm showing my age), and when the 996 was released, it was, "OMG, the air-cooled era is over", when the 997.1 changed engines away from the GT1 block, everyone (including me) was worried that the 997.2 and future models wouldn't be the same. Now we are on to the 991 and we are worried that the car is too techie, and has lost it's soul.
I think the bottom line is Porsche has been at the 911 almost 50 years now and I think it's safe to say that they know that they are doing and who their consumers are. With all the variants of the 997 (even though we make fun) there is something for everyone. Porsche has become very intelligent at becoming marketable to almost every demographic. There is no substitute.
#58
05-06-2012 | 10:17 PM
MrTheBadGuy
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,121
you would love pre 1989 911..if you haven't had one yet. It's early in the release of 991...as I have said a few times, yes, something is lost in EACH generation change and something is gained.. In the case of the 991, it seems to me that what is gained is Porsche really getting it right on so many levels, not to produce a raw car of course but a GT car that feels great, handles great and can be driven every day..
GT3 etc should be amazing too.
But again, I do completely agree something IS lost with each gain....And that's why I have decided not to sell my 996 GT3..and even with my 2000 Boxster S...No PSM, no traction and lighter than the 987 variants that came after. It feels lighter, and yes,,,you feel the speed more..
GT3 etc should be amazing too.
But again, I do completely agree something IS lost with each gain....And that's why I have decided not to sell my 996 GT3..and even with my 2000 Boxster S...No PSM, no traction and lighter than the 987 variants that came after. It feels lighter, and yes,,,you feel the speed more..
#59
05-08-2012 | 01:21 AM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 173
To me, from the 964 to the 993, nothing was lost but everything was gained. Same with the change from the 996 to the 997, and from the 997.1 to the 997.2. Something positive is definitely missing though from the 997.2 to the 991. Just my personal opinion.
#60
05-08-2012 | 08:19 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 469
maybe we are brothers..Fully agree that from 964 to 993 nothing was lost - the only thing maybe was the 100% 911 traditional design - otherwise - the 993 is a gain in every sense.
Same applies from 996 to 997. Question is what happened from 993 to 996..I would call it a "neutral"..mechanically better - designwise "lost".
One thing is however sure that whether 964, or 997 or 996 or G-Model..they all had conventional steering, normal handbrake, engine bay etc. The 991 breaks this rule..you can discuss as much as you want..the facts dont change.
PS: the 911 I disliked most were the early 996, the 80s 911 (except turbo)..now the 991 is on my "dislike" list too..the design outside isnt so muc the problem. Nonetheless, Im still a Porsche fan..and still like 911s..also G-Model etc..but the 911 dislikes I would not buy.
Whatever happens - I will not sell my two 997s..besides there are enough other interesting Porsches..and I dont need to have always the newest thing. As a daily driver I have an Audi, + I spent lots of time for travelling for work too..+ I still have other cars too..
There is no need for me to "force" me into a 991 which I dont like for now..
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