So long Carrera GTS!
Apr 29, 2012 | 06:19 PM
#31
Watch this space.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,211
I have to say, jumping_horse's comments are why I stuck with another 997. I want to have fewer electronic gizmos to break down in the future. The 991 (and every current BMW/Mercedes/Audi) looks like a nightmare if you try to forecast repairs 10-20 years down the road. A 991 on lease? Wonderful. But ownership is a frightening proposition... I suppose a GT version would be worth the concern, but not a "vanilla" Carrera or S.
Apr 29, 2012 | 06:39 PM
#33
Watch this space.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,211
That's a different story. If someone had to own and maintain those aircraft privately, I am certain the F86 is easier/cheaper. I am not denying the goodness of the 991 (I almost leased one), but for the very long run, I think the 997 will be less of a hassle.
Apr 29, 2012 | 08:40 PM
#34
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 60
From: Toronto
I don't think any of the water cooled Porsches (well, with the exception of the GT series) is worth having for the very long run.
Personally, if I want no electronic gadgets to cause maintenance nightmares years down the road, I'd go with an Air Cooled Porsche.
Personally, if I want no electronic gadgets to cause maintenance nightmares years down the road, I'd go with an Air Cooled Porsche.
Last edited by acrides; Apr 29, 2012 at 08:42 PM.
Apr 29, 2012 | 09:13 PM
#37
Watch this space.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,211
That said, I'd love to add a 964 RS America, a 993 Turbo, a '73-74 911 2.4, and an RS/RSR/IROC clone based on a Carrera 3.2 at some point.
Apr 29, 2012 | 09:23 PM
#38
MrTheBadGuy
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,121
Repairs for known engine problems on pre 1991 1/2 964's are very expensive as are repairs to the 4WD system. Any of these models can blow and engine and compared to the value of the cars you can easily be faced with a repair that comes close to the value of the car!
I don't wanna think what a replacement engine would be for my 2000 Box S...The Boxster I had before this one, I traded in and found out later the engine had to be replaced!
The air cooled 911's did have some problems as Chris mentioned. I learned a lot about that when we rebuilt the 3.0 engine that replaced the stock engine in my 1972 911. I don't remember the cost of the repairs of replacing the Dilivar studs and chain tensioners but it was a lot.
One would hope that by the time the 997 came out, especially for later models that they really ironed out any problems and these cars are probably as safe as any for the long haul. The 991's might be even better, we can't know that yet..But one reason to wait on the 991 is the usual caution not to buy a first year of a significant model change. This applies really to those of us who might hold onto these cars for a long time.
My next car might very well be late model 997s and my car after that will be a 991, be it an S or who knows what...and that one will be a keeper for a very very long time..
I don't wanna think what a replacement engine would be for my 2000 Box S...The Boxster I had before this one, I traded in and found out later the engine had to be replaced!
The air cooled 911's did have some problems as Chris mentioned. I learned a lot about that when we rebuilt the 3.0 engine that replaced the stock engine in my 1972 911. I don't remember the cost of the repairs of replacing the Dilivar studs and chain tensioners but it was a lot.
One would hope that by the time the 997 came out, especially for later models that they really ironed out any problems and these cars are probably as safe as any for the long haul. The 991's might be even better, we can't know that yet..But one reason to wait on the 991 is the usual caution not to buy a first year of a significant model change. This applies really to those of us who might hold onto these cars for a long time.
My next car might very well be late model 997s and my car after that will be a 991, be it an S or who knows what...and that one will be a keeper for a very very long time..
Apr 29, 2012 | 09:27 PM
#39
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,454
From: Pennsylvania
All good points! and no 'proper' engine bay is disconcerting, as is not traditional handbrake, although while that might be weird at first, I for one, cringe when I see valet pull the handbrake for all it's worth, thinking that is the proper way to engage it!
We're early in on the release of the 991 and it's no surprise that there are those who decry the 'loss of spirit' and I do understand and agree to an extent as well. But as said the 991 (base model) just felt extremely familiar to me and after a few minutes I had felt like I had been driven it forever! It just did everything effortlessly and smoothly..Most of all the clutch had a great feel to it! That's hugely important to me. The 996's that I have driven had terrible clutch feel and it was a deal breaker on my TT which while I admired and respected it, there was very little gratification driving it for the most part.
It's funny to read my own words about my journey through the different 911's and how i went from a 1987 911 to a 1990 C4 Cab and then 'mourned' a loss! Now I snicker at the very idea of a C4S CAB...or a Turbo cab or Turbo C4S Cab for that matter..or even a SUN ROOF!
The fact sunroofs are now an option warmed my heart!
I was steadfast in my thinking years ago that I needed a C4, until later driving a C2 and enjoying it so much more.
I do believe that the 997 will enjoy a position as 'the last' of the modern 911's as that is truly what it is in terms of size and feel of the cabin and engine bay.
Also, let's be honest, there are fewer people who can or will buy a brand new 991s and will be much better able to justify the purchase of a 997s by believing whatever they want to believe to help them (save money!).
For daily driving and having directly compared a base model 991 to a 997s, there just is no real comparison.
On another note, everytime I get into my 2000 Boxster S with no PCM and feel the lightness of the car and a bit of the harshness of the ride, I smile....and know that while I might eventually own a newer Boxster and will enjoy the numerous improvements, there will be that much lost as well.
And that's just the way it rolls..
If I had a big enough garage and wallet, I'd own one of just about every model.
We're early in on the release of the 991 and it's no surprise that there are those who decry the 'loss of spirit' and I do understand and agree to an extent as well. But as said the 991 (base model) just felt extremely familiar to me and after a few minutes I had felt like I had been driven it forever! It just did everything effortlessly and smoothly..Most of all the clutch had a great feel to it! That's hugely important to me. The 996's that I have driven had terrible clutch feel and it was a deal breaker on my TT which while I admired and respected it, there was very little gratification driving it for the most part.
It's funny to read my own words about my journey through the different 911's and how i went from a 1987 911 to a 1990 C4 Cab and then 'mourned' a loss! Now I snicker at the very idea of a C4S CAB...or a Turbo cab or Turbo C4S Cab for that matter..or even a SUN ROOF!
The fact sunroofs are now an option warmed my heart!
I was steadfast in my thinking years ago that I needed a C4, until later driving a C2 and enjoying it so much more.
I do believe that the 997 will enjoy a position as 'the last' of the modern 911's as that is truly what it is in terms of size and feel of the cabin and engine bay.
Also, let's be honest, there are fewer people who can or will buy a brand new 991s and will be much better able to justify the purchase of a 997s by believing whatever they want to believe to help them (save money!).
For daily driving and having directly compared a base model 991 to a 997s, there just is no real comparison.
On another note, everytime I get into my 2000 Boxster S with no PCM and feel the lightness of the car and a bit of the harshness of the ride, I smile....and know that while I might eventually own a newer Boxster and will enjoy the numerous improvements, there will be that much lost as well.
And that's just the way it rolls..
If I had a big enough garage and wallet, I'd own one of just about every model.
I guess the bottom line could be: The 911 has been and is a GT car since 1963, and since then, it has moved with the times, and changed accordingly to match the definition of that era. In this evolution, everybody has their own generation that they prefer, making it special. With the 911 getting progressively watered down to the modern definition of a GT car, a nostalgia grows for the older generation and makes them that much more special. But one thing remains true for all so far, you can always tell it's a 911 whether you see it, hear it, or feel it.
Apr 30, 2012 | 03:10 AM
#40
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 292
I have to say, jumping_horse's comments are why I stuck with another 997. I want to have fewer electronic gizmos to break down in the future. The 991 (and every current BMW/Mercedes/Audi) looks like a nightmare if you try to forecast repairs 10-20 years down the road. A 991 on lease? Wonderful. But ownership is a frightening proposition... I suppose a GT version would be worth the concern, but not a "vanilla" Carrera or S.
Do you think it's possible that the technology would have become less expensive to work on in 4 years or so when your warranty is up? For example, I remember when the iPhone first came out and some of the people that dropped their phones had to shell out for new ones out of contract at $400+ a pop, then came iPhone screen replacements and easier methods of fixing them. Don't you see this as a possibility later on?
I know you just bought yours so I'm not trying to rain on your parade or anything just wondering what you think. Also, you mentioned keeping the car 10-20 years from now, do you really plan to keep it that long?