Mark,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said there's a tendency to romanticize about past generations. The 993 is as far back as I can remember (I'm showing my age), and when the 996 was released, it was, "OMG, the air-cooled era is over", when the 997.1 changed engines away from the GT1 block, everyone (including me) was worried that the 997.2 and future models wouldn't be the same. Now we are on to the 991 and we are worried that the car is too techie, and has lost it's soul.

I think the bottom line is Porsche has been at the 911 almost 50 years now and I think it's safe to say that they know that they are doing and who their consumers are. With all the variants of the 997 (even though we make fun) there is something for everyone. Porsche has become very intelligent at becoming marketable to almost every demographic. There is no substitute.

 

ControlIt and Hussain,

you both hit the nail on the head!!!

great posts!!

 

I agree with what most of you said. However, yes generations progress, but you will always have your group of guys who flock to a certain generation. There's the classic 911 guys, the 964 guys, the 993 guys, the small group of 996 guys, the 997 guys, and then for the 991 it seems like the guys who want the fastest, latest and most comfortable. I don't hate the 991, I just prefer most 911s before it.

I understand what you mean when you say each generation has it's changes and gets further from the philosophy, but this has to happen to keep up with all of the changes in the market. Never before has a 911 had so much technology on board. When you look back at all of the generation changes sure the cars added on a bunch of stuff, but never so much technology like on the 991. So, bottom line for me, I will ALWAYS prefer pre-991 911s (excluding perhaps the 996), but I accept what the 991 is, and I know that it had to happen for Porsche is now becoming more focused on the consumer than the purist.

 

According to my info the GTS is already since a few months not possible to order anymore. The 997 GTS 4 is however still possible to order..at least in Germany.

@ Kabbanid: I think your dealer is trying to fool you - give Stuttgart a call..Im sure they will take "appropriate action" towards him..

Dont be afraid - I had once a similar case - I put in serious complaint to Stuttgart about a certain dealer..oh boy - I can tell you he will not dare to this again.

Whenever I go there now they almost roll out the red carpet for me..

Good luck!

 

what I forgot to mention: there are currently some quality problems with some 991 parts etc - even the 991 production has been a bit delayed because of these and some other issues.

Maybe this has also delayed or stopped temporarily the production of 997 4 GTS..but again I seriously doubt that production has been stopped..

A friend of mine was in the factory 2 weeks ago and was astonished how many 997s were still produced..

 

There's no question that there is 'a lot of technology' aboard a 991 but to me and as someone who has owned and still does own 'classic' 911's, the biggest (by far) change in the evolution of the 911 was with the 964. With the addition of anti lock brakes, dual airbags, sophisticated 4WD (on the C4), usable air conditioning, more sophisticated engine and suspension and on and on.

I had owned a 1987 Targa and had sold it to buy my 964 C4 Cab for all of the above reasons as well as a fear of a tendency to 'swap ends' if you lifted off the pedal at the wrong time. Once I got my 964, I immediately felt I had a mistake and shortly thereafter I bought my 1972 Targa to retain the purist old school feel that I felt was missing from the 964.

I then went on the get a 996TT and then a 996 GT3, as well as a couple of Boxsters and a 944 Turbo..

I only recently drove a 997, the first time was in my comparison to the 991. The 997 felt very much size wise to the 996's and 964 but smoother, that much more sophisticated.

WHen I switched to the 991 for the review I felt it did all the things the 997 did but just did them better and it felt better to be in the cabin.

For real purists, the 997 isn't it in my opinion, neither is the 993 or 964 really but it is in pre 1990 editions for pure driving experience. But you are giving up relizble air conditioning for the most part, and most safety features of modern cars, not to mention no comparison in the performance arena. I'll add that again, in my opinion an all wheel drive 911 is more of a departure from the original feel of 911's more than anything! I can't believe they even make a GTS 4WD...why?

So to me, sure I can understand feeling something 'lost' from post 1989 911's but to me they are nit picking more than fundamental changes from purist 911's of the past.

Someone else posted in this thread that the Boxster and the Cayman are more the drivers car than any 911 and I 100% agree. I think Porsche has gotten it pretty much exactly right. the 911 screams to be a GT and that's what it really finally is. If there weren't different variants or fantastic 2 seater 'driver's cars' like the Cayman and the Boxster, I would be more sympathetic to those who mourn the 'loss' of the 997.

After reading the OP review of the 991, I had totally expected a rather numb, lexus like 911. I was more than pleasantly surprised that it, in my opinion at least is just so much better. In every way.

That shouldn't and doesn't take anything away from the 997 and previous post 1989 911's just that the 911 has come into it's own as a true GT and very usable daily driver and still maintaining the excitement of the original mission statement.

And I have only driven a base model 991!

I think many who wax poetic and mourn the loss of the 'spirit' of the 911 with the advent of the 991 will feel quite differently in a very short while.

As always, all of this is not just a good problem but a great problem to have! We have a plethora of choices, by far more than ever, not just with new models but with so many pre owned choices.

The total production of 911's in pre 1990 numbers probably will equal ONE years sales of 997 or 991!

There really is something for everyone.

 

Hi Control it,

Yes - there is something for everybody..but I disagree with some of your points. Yes, the 964 was already a dramatic change - whether its more than other changes - 993 to 996 - remains to be seen but there is one thing thats for sure - the 997 will be the last 911:
- with a real engine bay
- with a hydraulic steering
- with a conventional hand brake
- ..but above all - much less electronics (no PTV, PADCC etc)..the steering electronics is linked to all kind of other ones in the car..the 991 will end up there one day where now 10 year 7 series end up - too much electronics no body can repair anymore - at least not a reasonable price anymore..the consequence are hugely dropping second hand prices.

The 997s can still however be maintained by a reasonable workshop and mechanic.

Even if you dont agree to my words - there is for me another argument - and the main one for me: what is the real benefit of all this electronics? Does the car consume much less? no--- is the car a lot faster: no..does the car feel more exctiting to drive: no..

Of course these are my personal opinions..but one last thing: never has an introduction of a new 911 resulted in such a "low" gain in performance as from 997 to 991. I know what Porsche is saying - but the independent test of Sport Auto revealed another picture..

But as you say..we can all choose - there are plenty of interesting Porsches around..

 

All good points! and no 'proper' engine bay is disconcerting, as is not traditional handbrake, although while that might be weird at first, I for one, cringe when I see valet pull the handbrake for all it's worth, thinking that is the proper way to engage it!

We're early in on the release of the 991 and it's no surprise that there are those who decry the 'loss of spirit' and I do understand and agree to an extent as well. But as said the 991 (base model) just felt extremely familiar to me and after a few minutes I had felt like I had been driven it forever! It just did everything effortlessly and smoothly..Most of all the clutch had a great feel to it! That's hugely important to me. The 996's that I have driven had terrible clutch feel and it was a deal breaker on my TT which while I admired and respected it, there was very little gratification driving it for the most part.

It's funny to read my own words about my journey through the different 911's and how i went from a 1987 911 to a 1990 C4 Cab and then 'mourned' a loss! Now I snicker at the very idea of a C4S CAB...or a Turbo cab or Turbo C4S Cab for that matter..or even a SUN ROOF!

The fact sunroofs are now an option warmed my heart!

I was steadfast in my thinking years ago that I needed a C4, until later driving a C2 and enjoying it so much more.

I do believe that the 997 will enjoy a position as 'the last' of the modern 911's as that is truly what it is in terms of size and feel of the cabin and engine bay.

Also, let's be honest, there are fewer people who can or will buy a brand new 991s and will be much better able to justify the purchase of a 997s by believing whatever they want to believe to help them (save money!).

For daily driving and having directly compared a base model 991 to a 997s, there just is no real comparison.

On another note, everytime I get into my 2000 Boxster S with no PCM and feel the lightness of the car and a bit of the harshness of the ride, I smile....and know that while I might eventually own a newer Boxster and will enjoy the numerous improvements, there will be that much lost as well.

And that's just the way it rolls..

If I had a big enough garage and wallet, I'd own one of just about every model.

 

This! We are very early on the release and I'm sure Porsche will adjust and configure the 911 to an ever more precise machine in time. When I think about this, I think about the '99 996 Carrera and how I didn't like the way that they looked, but when the '02 came out, I loved it and owned an '03 C2, the way I look at it is that I think when the turbo is released is really when they have fine tuned it.

There is always going to be a certain iteration of cars that some of us are attached to, I owned an '01 M5 that I loved and wish I hadn't sold (traded to get '03 C2).

 

seriously Jumping Horse,

don`t be one of the "ewig gestrigen" guys