Pagani Huayra Top Gear (Spoiler Alert)
Feb 27, 2013 | 02:37 PM
#151
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
What makes you so sure that a new tyre that they developed for the huayra with their developing partner pagani has been added to the web site?
I think it's time for some reflection against our own claims a this point.
It seems like the tire was NOT hand cut as the same pattern existed on previous road legal pirellis.
Now I'm not saying those tires are street legal as their are question marks around the holes and the size.
The holes can be explained as I did above so it's only the sizing that remains uncertain.
But I think we can put the pattern part of this scandal to rest now can't we ?
I think it's time for some reflection against our own claims a this point.
It seems like the tire was NOT hand cut as the same pattern existed on previous road legal pirellis.
Now I'm not saying those tires are street legal as their are question marks around the holes and the size.
The holes can be explained as I did above so it's only the sizing that remains uncertain.
But I think we can put the pattern part of this scandal to rest now can't we ?
Some key words you provide are "previous road legal Pirellis", in lieu of "currently available". No, I cannot be sure that there might not be some extremely recently, heretofore unannounced, specially developed tires that have not yet made their way onto the Pirelli website.
Once again we're left looking for Unicorn tires. But why is this even necessary when Pagani has explicitly stated what tires the Huayra used for its Power Lap? Is there anything at all unusual about the fact that they have done this now on two separate occasions, with two different answers?
Last edited by mattjs33; Feb 27, 2013 at 02:41 PM.
Feb 27, 2013 | 02:57 PM
#152
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
Ok I have resisted long enough, elhimiel you are a first rate idiot. How can someone who hates the Pagani brand so much then go and use a video that declares it to be the greatest car on the planet as a way of slagging it off?????
Could it be the fact no one that has actually driven or tested the car has had anything but praise for the car that you hate so much just pisses you off?
Maybe I can forgive your resentment because you live in a desert country with no race or car history, only one decent track and no motorsport industry of any significance. Your street culture which is splashed across the internet seems to consist of similar idiots doing their best to kill themselves or any unlucky bystander in drifting demonstrations on public roads.
From the moment you started posting on Teamspeed your attitude has been combative, your so called facts are never substantiated and when you are called out you chose not to answer. Most of the time you sound like a 10 year old boy/girl, I not sure which you are. If you were bullied at school and this is your way of getting back at people, it’s not working mate
Can you please just grow up
Could it be the fact no one that has actually driven or tested the car has had anything but praise for the car that you hate so much just pisses you off?
Maybe I can forgive your resentment because you live in a desert country with no race or car history, only one decent track and no motorsport industry of any significance. Your street culture which is splashed across the internet seems to consist of similar idiots doing their best to kill themselves or any unlucky bystander in drifting demonstrations on public roads.
From the moment you started posting on Teamspeed your attitude has been combative, your so called facts are never substantiated and when you are called out you chose not to answer. Most of the time you sound like a 10 year old boy/girl, I not sure which you are. If you were bullied at school and this is your way of getting back at people, it’s not working mate
Can you please just grow up
I understand you want to stick to your point that the tires used are not street legal but I must say that even if they had used the Trofeos (which they didn't, obviously) they are NOT street tires so even these are up for discussion. Just read what it says. "In the event of wet asphalt, judicious driving at reduced speeds is advised to limit the risk of aquaplaning. The P Zero Trofeo is generally NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN WET TRACK DRIVING."
How are these street tires?! And why would TG allow them?!
But back on point!
CHEATS!!!!!!!
Feb 27, 2013 | 03:19 PM
#153
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
Let's be careful how we define "street-legal tires", Elhimiel, so as not to unnecessarily muddy the debate.
Those Trofeos are indeed street legal, as they have a required tread depth and have passed muster by the appropriate regulartory agencies as being street legal. This doesn't mean they are suitable to drive on the street for a length of time.
As another example, Hoosier R-type autocross and track tires are approved by the DOT as being street legal. They squeak by the requirements by a frog's hair, but you can drive them on the street. I've done so. It's really not a good idea however because they are so prone to punctures, and in addition the sidewalls are so extremely stiff that driving them is literally a chore, as the ride is horrible and they will track in even the slightest truck groove.
Racing slicks however, have never been designed with any type such type of regulatory compliance in mind. The sidewalls and carcass are yet another level above that of the R-type Hoosiers, or even Pirelli PZero Trofeos. No concessions are made to anything in pursuit of ultimate track perfomance. A car equipped with racing slicks will see a lap time improvement even beyond those you can achieve with the type of street legal, track focused tires discussed above.
In any case, since we have had anywhere from 500-700 guest viewers all day on this thread, let me very quickly summarize the main points in this case, for those of you who are just joining us and aren't taking the time to read the whole thread:
The Huayra's Power Lap tires carry no identifying branding other than "Pirelli" and sizes 265/645-19 and 325/705-20. This sizing nomenclature is specifically stated by Pirelli only for use on its track-only racing tires. This fact alone tells us exactly what the Power Lap tires are, and can be confirmed by the presence of slick tire treadwear dots in the exact same pattern as have Pirelli racing slicks. The fact that these size racing slicks are unique to the track-only Zonda R is doubtless not a coincidence.
There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that the Huayra's Power Lap tires were created by cutting treads into Pirelli racing slicks.
Those Trofeos are indeed street legal, as they have a required tread depth and have passed muster by the appropriate regulartory agencies as being street legal. This doesn't mean they are suitable to drive on the street for a length of time.
As another example, Hoosier R-type autocross and track tires are approved by the DOT as being street legal. They squeak by the requirements by a frog's hair, but you can drive them on the street. I've done so. It's really not a good idea however because they are so prone to punctures, and in addition the sidewalls are so extremely stiff that driving them is literally a chore, as the ride is horrible and they will track in even the slightest truck groove.
Racing slicks however, have never been designed with any type such type of regulatory compliance in mind. The sidewalls and carcass are yet another level above that of the R-type Hoosiers, or even Pirelli PZero Trofeos. No concessions are made to anything in pursuit of ultimate track perfomance. A car equipped with racing slicks will see a lap time improvement even beyond those you can achieve with the type of street legal, track focused tires discussed above.
In any case, since we have had anywhere from 500-700 guest viewers all day on this thread, let me very quickly summarize the main points in this case, for those of you who are just joining us and aren't taking the time to read the whole thread:
The Huayra's Power Lap tires carry no identifying branding other than "Pirelli" and sizes 265/645-19 and 325/705-20. This sizing nomenclature is specifically stated by Pirelli only for use on its track-only racing tires. This fact alone tells us exactly what the Power Lap tires are, and can be confirmed by the presence of slick tire treadwear dots in the exact same pattern as have Pirelli racing slicks. The fact that these size racing slicks are unique to the track-only Zonda R is doubtless not a coincidence.
There isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that the Huayra's Power Lap tires were created by cutting treads into Pirelli racing slicks.
Last edited by mattjs33; Feb 27, 2013 at 03:22 PM.
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:00 PM
#154
Thread Starter
| F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
Finally..:
I asked Pagani two questions:
1 - If Corsas were used, as the press release says (http://www.pagani.com/en/news/2013/p...), why did the car on Top Gear have no P-Zero Corsa branding on the tires and a different tread pattern to the specially developed Corsas?
2 - Below it says that the P-Zero Trofeo was used for the run. If you did use Trofeos for the lap, why does the press release say that Corsas were used? Also, are the Trofeos developed for the Huayra based on or similar to the slicks that the Zonda R used?
Per Luca Venturi, Pagani's press officer, both were used for the Top Gear test:
1. We used both during the shooting at TopGear Test track. We reported Pirelli Pzero Corsa on our press release because we want, for communication reasons, to push them on the media.
2. All Pirelli tyres for the Huayra have been developed from the Zonda R (keep in mind both cars the Huayra and the Zonda R share basically the same suspension with the Zonda R being the development test platform for suspension, brakes and tyres of the Huayra). Pagani released statements about this in the past.
Another journalist that has had experience with the same car told me this:
Those tires are hand-cut Zonda R tyres and the evidence is really clear all around. Hammond definitely drove on the normal PZero road tyres also used in the press release photos, like any journalist. You can easily see it in the video Jalopnik posted at 7:36 when the camera does a fly-over. They later replaced the tyres for the Zonda R tyres, which had to be pre-cut by Pirelli with just one purpose “set a fast lap time”. There is simply no other reasonable stories behind it. I also had a go in the Huayra together with the test driver and when we drove it, it definitely had the PZero road tyres fitted. Similar to Hammond’s, and any other journalist reviewing it. Perhaps it was not so smart to swap tyres, because the major difference in lap time between the Ariel Atom V8 and the Huayra proved to be rather suspicious. All they have to do now is come up with a proper response, not one we easily shoot holes in.
And there you have it. Pagani said they used the Corsa tires since that is what they wanted to push to the media. The P-Zero "Trofeo" used on the Huayra is a modified version of the slick used on the Zonda R. That explains the nomenclature, branding, tread pattern, and wear indicators.
Pagani told me the tires are street legal, but you don't want to use them in heavy rain. That means they're super close to the edge of legality.
Pagani Admits They Used Two Sets Of Tires For Top Gear Test
I asked Pagani two questions:
1 - If Corsas were used, as the press release says (http://www.pagani.com/en/news/2013/p...), why did the car on Top Gear have no P-Zero Corsa branding on the tires and a different tread pattern to the specially developed Corsas?
2 - Below it says that the P-Zero Trofeo was used for the run. If you did use Trofeos for the lap, why does the press release say that Corsas were used? Also, are the Trofeos developed for the Huayra based on or similar to the slicks that the Zonda R used?
Per Luca Venturi, Pagani's press officer, both were used for the Top Gear test:
1. We used both during the shooting at TopGear Test track. We reported Pirelli Pzero Corsa on our press release because we want, for communication reasons, to push them on the media.
2. All Pirelli tyres for the Huayra have been developed from the Zonda R (keep in mind both cars the Huayra and the Zonda R share basically the same suspension with the Zonda R being the development test platform for suspension, brakes and tyres of the Huayra). Pagani released statements about this in the past.
Another journalist that has had experience with the same car told me this:
Those tires are hand-cut Zonda R tyres and the evidence is really clear all around. Hammond definitely drove on the normal PZero road tyres also used in the press release photos, like any journalist. You can easily see it in the video Jalopnik posted at 7:36 when the camera does a fly-over. They later replaced the tyres for the Zonda R tyres, which had to be pre-cut by Pirelli with just one purpose “set a fast lap time”. There is simply no other reasonable stories behind it. I also had a go in the Huayra together with the test driver and when we drove it, it definitely had the PZero road tyres fitted. Similar to Hammond’s, and any other journalist reviewing it. Perhaps it was not so smart to swap tyres, because the major difference in lap time between the Ariel Atom V8 and the Huayra proved to be rather suspicious. All they have to do now is come up with a proper response, not one we easily shoot holes in.
And there you have it. Pagani said they used the Corsa tires since that is what they wanted to push to the media. The P-Zero "Trofeo" used on the Huayra is a modified version of the slick used on the Zonda R. That explains the nomenclature, branding, tread pattern, and wear indicators.
Pagani told me the tires are street legal, but you don't want to use them in heavy rain. That means they're super close to the edge of legality.
Pagani Admits They Used Two Sets Of Tires For Top Gear Test
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:09 PM
#155
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 35
Finally..:
I asked Pagani two questions:
1 - If Corsas were used, as the press release says (http://www.pagani.com/en/news/2013/p...), why did the car on Top Gear have no P-Zero Corsa branding on the tires and a different tread pattern to the specially developed Corsas?
2 - Below it says that the P-Zero Trofeo was used for the run. If you did use Trofeos for the lap, why does the press release say that Corsas were used? Also, are the Trofeos developed for the Huayra based on or similar to the slicks that the Zonda R used?
Per Luca Venturi, Pagani's press officer, both were used for the Top Gear test:
1. We used both during the shooting at TopGear Test track. We reported Pirelli Pzero Corsa on our press release because we want, for communication reasons, to push them on the media.
2. All Pirelli tyres for the Huayra have been developed from the Zonda R (keep in mind both cars the Huayra and the Zonda R share basically the same suspension with the Zonda R being the development test platform for suspension, brakes and tyres of the Huayra). Pagani released statements about this in the past.
Another journalist that has had experience with the same car told me this:
Those tires are hand-cut Zonda R tyres and the evidence is really clear all around. Hammond definitely drove on the normal PZero road tyres also used in the press release photos, like any journalist. You can easily see it in the video Jalopnik posted at 7:36 when the camera does a fly-over. They later replaced the tyres for the Zonda R tyres, which had to be pre-cut by Pirelli with just one purpose “set a fast lap time”. There is simply no other reasonable stories behind it. I also had a go in the Huayra together with the test driver and when we drove it, it definitely had the PZero road tyres fitted. Similar to Hammond’s, and any other journalist reviewing it. Perhaps it was not so smart to swap tyres, because the major difference in lap time between the Ariel Atom V8 and the Huayra proved to be rather suspicious. All they have to do now is come up with a proper response, not one we easily shoot holes in.
And there you have it. Pagani said they used the Corsa tires since that is what they wanted to push to the media. The P-Zero "Trofeo" used on the Huayra is a modified version of the slick used on the Zonda R. That explains the nomenclature, branding, tread pattern, and wear indicators.
Pagani told me the tires are street legal, but you don't want to use them in heavy rain. That means they're super close to the edge of legality.
Pagani Admits They Used Two Sets Of Tires For Top Gear Test
I asked Pagani two questions:
1 - If Corsas were used, as the press release says (http://www.pagani.com/en/news/2013/p...), why did the car on Top Gear have no P-Zero Corsa branding on the tires and a different tread pattern to the specially developed Corsas?
2 - Below it says that the P-Zero Trofeo was used for the run. If you did use Trofeos for the lap, why does the press release say that Corsas were used? Also, are the Trofeos developed for the Huayra based on or similar to the slicks that the Zonda R used?
Per Luca Venturi, Pagani's press officer, both were used for the Top Gear test:
1. We used both during the shooting at TopGear Test track. We reported Pirelli Pzero Corsa on our press release because we want, for communication reasons, to push them on the media.
2. All Pirelli tyres for the Huayra have been developed from the Zonda R (keep in mind both cars the Huayra and the Zonda R share basically the same suspension with the Zonda R being the development test platform for suspension, brakes and tyres of the Huayra). Pagani released statements about this in the past.
Another journalist that has had experience with the same car told me this:
Those tires are hand-cut Zonda R tyres and the evidence is really clear all around. Hammond definitely drove on the normal PZero road tyres also used in the press release photos, like any journalist. You can easily see it in the video Jalopnik posted at 7:36 when the camera does a fly-over. They later replaced the tyres for the Zonda R tyres, which had to be pre-cut by Pirelli with just one purpose “set a fast lap time”. There is simply no other reasonable stories behind it. I also had a go in the Huayra together with the test driver and when we drove it, it definitely had the PZero road tyres fitted. Similar to Hammond’s, and any other journalist reviewing it. Perhaps it was not so smart to swap tyres, because the major difference in lap time between the Ariel Atom V8 and the Huayra proved to be rather suspicious. All they have to do now is come up with a proper response, not one we easily shoot holes in.
And there you have it. Pagani said they used the Corsa tires since that is what they wanted to push to the media. The P-Zero "Trofeo" used on the Huayra is a modified version of the slick used on the Zonda R. That explains the nomenclature, branding, tread pattern, and wear indicators.
Pagani told me the tires are street legal, but you don't want to use them in heavy rain. That means they're super close to the edge of legality.
Pagani Admits They Used Two Sets Of Tires For Top Gear Test
They didn't answer any of the questions directly!
Pagani is now saying they sent a press release out calling the "Trofeo" tires Corsa for marketing purposes? So, they lied to help promote Corsa tires? Um, how is that acceptable?
Pagani hasn't shown any valid of provable information, they're just continuing their lies...
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:17 PM
#156
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 143
From: Northern California
I haven't really posted in this debate yet but I've read the whole thing, and I must say that the Pagani response admitting they used hand cut Zonda R slicks for the power lap is pretty much as satisfactory as we will get. Street legal? I have no idea how, but ok. I still don't think the lap should be considered legit, I think only a lap run on P Zero Corsas would be acceptable.
I'm glad this is getting a lot of attention however, its best that people know the truth, regardless of how many actually care. I think true car enthusiasts do.
I'm glad this is getting a lot of attention however, its best that people know the truth, regardless of how many actually care. I think true car enthusiasts do.
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:18 PM
#157
Thread Starter
| F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
^they just admitted that its the Zonda R tyre..cut and modified which explains everything we have seen from the pictures..
Along with the fact that they indeed are street legal.
The only thing they did wrong is that they said it was the Corsa when it was the trofeo.. to expose the trofeo more to the media..probably as a deal with Pirelli.
Or you can just call it all BS and assume that they are lying about the legality of the tire..
Thats up to you.. or anyone else to judge.
Me being the SHILL i am..i trust pagani that they are street legal..
But sure as hell optimized..and used to break the record and make the fastest time possible.
And i cant hold that against them.. competitiveness is great.. as long as its not cheating.
And i do not think that tire is street illegal.
And no one can prove that it is or isn't.
Either you choose to trust Pagani or you dont!
PS
Does anyone have any insight to what the process is to legalize a tire?
Along with the fact that they indeed are street legal.
The only thing they did wrong is that they said it was the Corsa when it was the trofeo.. to expose the trofeo more to the media..probably as a deal with Pirelli.
Or you can just call it all BS and assume that they are lying about the legality of the tire..
Thats up to you.. or anyone else to judge.
Me being the SHILL i am..i trust pagani that they are street legal..
But sure as hell optimized..and used to break the record and make the fastest time possible.
And i cant hold that against them.. competitiveness is great.. as long as its not cheating.
And i do not think that tire is street illegal.
And no one can prove that it is or isn't.
Either you choose to trust Pagani or you dont!
PS
Does anyone have any insight to what the process is to legalize a tire?
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:22 PM
#158
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
What else were they going to say, I guess. I for one do not think that the mere act of cutting lines into a race tire makes it street legal. What a pile of waste.
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:30 PM
#159
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
Challenge accepted.
Let's be clear: Their press release says what I've been saying for a week, but stops short of saying the tires are in fact street legal. That was the Jalopnik guy talking. You think he's going to disagree? Would he ever like to be granted an interview or an exclusive again?
Won't it be fun to find out?
Feb 27, 2013 | 04:30 PM
#160
Thread Starter
| F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
^They just said in the previous email i posted that 3 tires are available for customers INCLUDING the ones used on the lap the so called Trofeos.
Are you even reading properly?
And yes they admitted that they are Zonda R tyres..modified for road use..and they are apparently ROAD LEGAL ( if you choose to believe them)
PS
Still does anyone know what it takes to make a tire road legal..does it have anything to do with the compound..or is it just about the depth of the threads ..or are there other requirements for example environmental requirements on the compounds?
Are you even reading properly?
And yes they admitted that they are Zonda R tyres..modified for road use..and they are apparently ROAD LEGAL ( if you choose to believe them)
PS
Still does anyone know what it takes to make a tire road legal..does it have anything to do with the compound..or is it just about the depth of the threads ..or are there other requirements for example environmental requirements on the compounds?