^Who is questioning fords racing heritage?

Not that it matters here as they do not make the engine for Ksegg.

Mercedes has plenty of racing heritage.

One would only be a fool to not recognize the quality of AMG engines.

 

^That. The Ring time for the CCR was set at -3°C, with taller gearing and wider ratio gaps in the lower gears plus what you said. Since then, many sections of the Nordschleife have been resurfaced.


Some Agera innovations that haven’t been mentioned include the “Intelligent Lifepo4 Battery” and nano surfaced cylinder sleeves from ANS (Applied Nano Surfaces).
Some of the later ccx/ccxr’s have a 6 speed paddle-shift by Xtrac, the manual was from CIMA so they’ve experienced with both before.
The production Agera and Agera R came out at the same time (late 2010-early 2011) and were both officially unveiled at Geneva 2011. The E85/E100 compatible flex fuel engine is the main difference. The R’s front brakes are slightly bigger and some of the optional stuff on the Agera comes standard with the R.

 

Its like those bad excuses one team gives when lost to another.
LIke oh the pitch was wet or the pitch was uneven.

The times from all cars that fared better than the ksegg including Zondas and Porsche CGT and many others are on the same track.. non resurfaced.

Now ok fine lets say the CCX is so much better than the CCR.
Do you really believe that the sportauto time which was 7.34 could be shaved down to 7:24? ( the zonda time) ?

Be realistic and stop making excuses for not 1 now 2 damn tests!

Ps
Thats what i meant with the tendency of Ksegg to call everything a innovation. The battery in the huayra is only 4-5kg and costs 13 times more than a normal battery.. And having said that im pretty damn sure that none of these 2 made the battery in house.
So why even mention such things?

 

OK here we go again. It does not seem to matter how many times I try to placate people on here there seems to be a determination to spin everything I say into a negative on this subject.

So I will try again. Any dealer selling both brands has to do his best to promote both in the best possible light, to not do so would be commercial suicide. I fully accept Tommy's opinions on the merits of both cars but at the end of the day those are his opinions. I have mine and would expect him to respect mine as much as I respect his as again mine as well as his are based on hands on exp.

No I don’t own either car but have spent time in both, which I suspect is more than can be said by most on here. Feel free to chime in with your own personnel experiences if you have any.

As for most Zonda and Egg owners actually owning both cars, that is actually a myth. A few do but not a lot

Now too values. The car that sold at RM "did" actually sell for £241K. The buyer got a major bargain at that price. And say whatever you want but a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Koenigsegg have said that they tried to contact the seller and offered significantly more than the reserve for the car before the auction; does this not sound suspicious to anyone here? Why sell for a very low price as well as incur the fees that RM charge if Koenigsegg have offered you a huge amount more for the car. Someone here I suspect is not telling the truth as that whole situation makes no sense.

Tommy currently has two Eggs for sale both of which he has had for well over a year. Now to add balance he also has a Zonda which again he has had for sale for well over a year. You have to ask why have these cars have not sold? Personally I think all three are overpriced.

Yes the market is tiny but the right car will sell for the right money. Case in point being the Red Zonda with Cinque upgrades that was sold to a member on PH within weeks of going on sale at DK Engineering very recently

The same happened to another Egg which recently was sold for well below asking price. The details of which due to confidentiality I cannot reveal here. But again it sold for the price the market was willing to pay.

As for the sale of the Zonda R a couple of years ago at auction, again whoever bought it got it for a steal. Zonda R’s sold since have gone for the list price. But as race cars they cannot at the end of the day be compared to road cars, their resale value is very different

So in conclusion the market sets the price, not the dealer

Now I work in engineering, the type that makes what car manufactures does look like they are playing with Lego.

The recent death of a Zonda driver was caused by the driver being thrown from the car because he was not wearing a seatbelt, pure and simple. His passenger walked away with hardly a scratch because he was wearing his. The car was not to blame as the police reports have stated. The engineering worked.

Pagani have been promoting the safety features of its cars for years, as has Koenigsegg. In fact Pagani have pushed the safety features on the Huayra long before this accident occurred, it has all been a big part of the sale from day one. So it’s very disingenuous to suggest that the PR machine has ramped up since the accident.

And too suggest that Pagani developed a front splitter as the result of a thread on PH, are you serious????

Just like Koenigsegg, Pagani are on a constant development drive. We already know that upgraded versions are on the way including an F model etc

When it comes to the Agera I have only asked one main question, and that is “What is it like as a road car?” Jethro’s video at the start of this thread does not answer that fundamental question. And unless I have missed something none of the major publications be they print or video have answered that question either

EVO magazine have just published their Performance Car of the Year results, and guess what, the Huayra came joint first. And before someone jumps in and says “Well Harry Metcalf would say that” Remember 12 other judges were involved in that decision.

Why given the near two years that the Agera has been available have they not submitted their car to such a test? Personally I think it might do well. Anyway I will leave you to ponder that question

I have tried at the end of the day to be balanced in my answers, look again at what I have said if you don’t believe me. But I concede that at the end of the day, some people will only see what they want to see. If that is anyone on here then that’s a shame

 

The CCX compared to the CCR is as much of a revolution as the Zonda F is to the Zonda S. There are several thousands new components and the bodypanels of the CCR wont fit the CCX and vice verca. That the CCX got a near identical time to the CCR would strongly suggest there was something wrong with the test. The last time SportAuto was allowed by Pagani to make a fair comparison was when the Zonda S clocked 7:44 compared to the CCR's 7:34. Top Gear is another unbias reference and there the CCX clocked a 1:17.6 compared to the Zonda F's 1:18.4. I hate to be the one who states the obvious but comparing a Zonda with the clubsport package to a CCX not only riding street tyres but also using street damper clicks is not what you would call a fair comparison.

"Im looking at an email and quoting below:

"Black Falcon is and was hired by Pagani"

"Deleted our settings for the car (harder springs, other wheelsettings, other clicks on the dampers, and cup tires) with the reasoning that this was not stock on the car."

"However they let Pagani have their Clubsport Package which are the same ingredients"

"Very unfair, if you ask me"

"They thought to have the rights to have their own wheelsetting for soem reason".

What excuse for sucking at the Nurburgring? - Page 2 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

You could argue back and forth if Koenigsegg's track setting can be considered stock or not (I say yes, only 5 Zonda F's had the optional clubsport package and Koenigsegg offered the same options for their CCX just not packaged as a out and out clubsport package. The car was delivered to the Black Falcon team with these options as well) - the fact remains that when compared in a controlled test setting with a unbias driver using the same tyres and settings optimized for the track the Koenigseggs have been faster. As it should. The cars are very similar and shares a lot of components but Koenigsegg have longer wishbones, is more slipstreamed and have far more power. The difference we're seeing is that power in combination with a better suspension geometry. When you add cup tyres to the mix though then naturally the Zonda will win because at the end of the day the rubber is what's interfacing with the road. Throw slicks on a 458 (and a lot of makers do just that to manipulate the Ring records) then it will beat both Pagani and Koenigsegg every single time without fault. More rubber means more traction and traction equals cornering speed. It's dead simple. Without equal tyres a race between them would be like having a sprint between an athlete wearing shoes and the other wearing skates. The outcome would be meaningless.

The same goes for dampers clicks. You can hear Marc Basseng complain about soft dampers (which are user adjustable) in the video, and softer dampers gives better high speed stability but more track deviation (less traction) and body roll. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to know something was wrong as it's straight from the horses mouth. The car was running on a soft setting.

Sorry for pointing out the painfully obvious.

I'm not falling into the trap of engaging in a debate with you as it's proven to be a long and arduous test of patience for anyone who's ever tried it. You debunk one myth and here's another ten. No thanks.

I do recall you asking for track tests previously but the bar now appears to be a road test. Thankfully I am happy to inform you that such tests does exist and many are available on koenigsegg.com under the media tab, sub tab "press reviews".

You're .

 

So you compare the CCR with the Zonda S?

806hp and 920nm torque against 555hp and 760nm ?

Is that fair?

That email is that from Ksegg hq?

Pagani did not hire black falcon for this test, the Zonda is a customer car which was taken care of by black falcon.

In the end, if it is so simple and such a blatant bullshit test why do they not then run a car on the ring?
This test is from 2008 its been nearly 5 damn years and Ksegg has NOT tracked a car on the ring after that.
Even though they had the chance when they took the agera there.

Seems fishy to me, why you would not rectify such a damaging report by proving it wrong, instead we get conspiracy theory's and emails.

Laughable!




On this occasion they instead set a 402km/h top speed time and took pretty pictures..when it could settle shit once and for all.

But sure if you want to market your car as a top fuel dragster,, go ahead there are plenty of people that like to own such cars.

Not my cup of tea!

 

So basically you are saying you don't have an answer to my comments then, that’s OK, thanks for conceding that.

And yes I have asked for proper track tests, not drag races by the way. But the road test I have requested above, and maybe I should have been more clear about this, in most cases now also include track times as well. Most magazines do this as you well know.

And here's the thing, I am only interested in hearing how good or bad the car is, the same as I would with any car test I read or see.

From your comments it would appear you may be afraid that the Agera is not as good as you hope. I want it to be good by the way but you don’t seem to want to believe me

Anyway all this may well be academic soon as the likely hood is that the McLaren P1, The Ferrari F70 and the Porsche 918 could all rewrite the performance car hand book and the Agera will have lost its window

 

I’m being realistic. You on the other hand are being very selective in your arguments. You also claim everything that comes from Koenigsegg must be taken with a bowl of salt yet you trust Horacio and Harry wholeheartedly. I guess that’s what you need to do to try to prove your points.

Unfortunately for you Koenigsegg did work with their battery supplier:

The Huayra has a Li-ion battery.

For someone who despises Koenigsegg so much, you sure do spend a lot of time in these threads.
I have huge respect for what Mr. Pagani has accomplished, but you have to keep in mind this is a Koenigsegg thread and you are the one who keeps bringing up Pagani in 'egg threads.

 

We were talking innovations right, that battery type is not an innovation by koenigsegg.Now im pretty damn sure that they had contact with the company that provide their parts, and give them directions on what they need.

But so does Pagani, Ferrari, TATA and Ford.

 

Holy S***!!! We just got ourselves a F! Einstein on board!