Jethro Bovingdon finds out just how fast the Koenigsegg Agera R is
Nov 9, 2012 | 08:07 AM
#141
F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
Yes I do think it's fair comparing cars of the same generation tested in the same year by the same mag by the same driver. CCR vs the Zonda S. CCX vs the Zonda F. Clubsport vs clubsport. In all unbias tests the Zegg have proven to be the faster car.
What are You proposing in order for it to be "fair" if I may ask? That we compare the Zonda F to the CCR for the sake of "fairness"? The Agera R has 1140 hp so will just have to wait until Pagani has caught up for it to be "fair"? Should we similarly compare the fit and finish of the Zonda to the Agera for it to be "fair"? Wait for the next Koenigsegg to measure up against the Huayra for it to be "fair"? This is not how it works and you should know this.
Recognizing Koenigsegg's strengths is not taking sides for them or against Pagani but giving credit where credit is due. The problem with you and streetrod is your passion for Pagani makes you want to have it all for your favourite car. It's innocent and endearing but it's not rational and out of line when you go out of your way to clog up a Koenigsegg topic and share your boyhood dreams with people that have not asked for them. You do a wonderful job in the Pagani threads and you should keep it this way. This is the supercar forum, not the Pagani forum. People are allowed to say and think nice things about other supercars without you being offended and going on the defensive. I mean, calling Christian von Koenigsegg classless? Really? This is how we play this game of yours? I am not quite sure who you are or what makes you so special to think this is in order but Horacio and Christian are the modern day Enzo and Ferruccio and should be respected for what they've created without reserve. If you are looking for competition then buy a tennis racket instead of living vicariously through Horacio's and Christian's accomplishments. These cars are supposed to be FUN and you are BORING. You and streetrod should be thankful that you as car enthusiasts get to enjoy two such great men during your lifetime and not exclude one because you prefer the other. The only losers in this situation are you guys because you deny yourself of a pleasure.
What are You proposing in order for it to be "fair" if I may ask? That we compare the Zonda F to the CCR for the sake of "fairness"? The Agera R has 1140 hp so will just have to wait until Pagani has caught up for it to be "fair"? Should we similarly compare the fit and finish of the Zonda to the Agera for it to be "fair"? Wait for the next Koenigsegg to measure up against the Huayra for it to be "fair"? This is not how it works and you should know this.
Recognizing Koenigsegg's strengths is not taking sides for them or against Pagani but giving credit where credit is due. The problem with you and streetrod is your passion for Pagani makes you want to have it all for your favourite car. It's innocent and endearing but it's not rational and out of line when you go out of your way to clog up a Koenigsegg topic and share your boyhood dreams with people that have not asked for them. You do a wonderful job in the Pagani threads and you should keep it this way. This is the supercar forum, not the Pagani forum. People are allowed to say and think nice things about other supercars without you being offended and going on the defensive. I mean, calling Christian von Koenigsegg classless? Really? This is how we play this game of yours? I am not quite sure who you are or what makes you so special to think this is in order but Horacio and Christian are the modern day Enzo and Ferruccio and should be respected for what they've created without reserve. If you are looking for competition then buy a tennis racket instead of living vicariously through Horacio's and Christian's accomplishments. These cars are supposed to be FUN and you are BORING. You and streetrod should be thankful that you as car enthusiasts get to enjoy two such great men during your lifetime and not exclude one because you prefer the other. The only losers in this situation are you guys because you deny yourself of a pleasure.
You are talking conspiracy theories, every test that goes against ksegg is biased and bogus to you.
Of course its unfair to pit a 550hp car vs a 900hp.
Its like comparing a 180hp hot hatch with a BMW M3.
So how is it that its valid to compare Zonda S with the CCR, same driver, but different days and conditions.
And when i compare CCR to Zonda F.. its not ok? Just beacuse its a different driver? Well your comparison is on 2 seperate days.
Like i said before just wait for the next round of tests, if they ever allow a ksegg to run the ring again.
you will see that the 730hp huayra vs the 11??hp ksegg will be way closer than what you might think.
To me if you got 400hp more and loose or win by a second..it tells alot about your car.
Huge turbo lag and to much power to handle for the chassis does not transfer well on track. but lets see i hope they surprise me
Now for the rest, i really do like Ksegg i am from sweden after all, they are the pride and joy of whats left of the swedish car industry.
Ive met Christian 3 times, he is a nice man to say the least.
I think the new car ( Agera) is a stunner, the first car i really liked from them.
It hauls ass like a mofo..and i would really like to drive it on the Ängelholm runway
With all that said, i still feel they make a slightly inferior product to what Pagani makes.
I like their philosophy more, their attention to detail,their fit and finish.. and the way it translates on to the road.
Its more finesse rather than brute power.
Now if someone likes the brute power..i sure as hell can not object nor do i get defensive or angry.
What riles me up is the fact that some claim that its a better product, without any bases.
And when i present bases they are called bogus and made up.
Other than that. Much respect to Koenigsegg and by all means love them, as i want them to grow and prosper not fall off the face of the earth like countless other supercar makers.
Nov 9, 2012 | 09:53 AM
#142
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,406
^Let this sum it instead as your video only dealt with your fascination of drag racing, the important part was left out.
So here comes the rest of the video
Bugatti Veyron & Zonda F Stig Laps - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube
So here comes the rest of the video
Bugatti Veyron & Zonda F Stig Laps - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube
fit and finish anyone?Huge turbo lag? Did not knew that the Huayra suffer from that
Last edited by exRockstar; Nov 9, 2012 at 09:54 AM.
Nov 9, 2012 | 11:26 AM
#144
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 143
From: Northern California
I'm glad you (Artist) realize that 'Ring times aren't important to these companies, so why are they so goddamn important to you?! You bring them up all the time, talking about how much better Pagani's cars are using the same example of a test that many people on here, Koenigsegg fans or not, believe was biased towards Pagani. And when someone brings up another test, such as the Top Gear one which saw the CCX beat the Zonda F, you just ignore it!
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
Nov 9, 2012 | 11:51 AM
#146
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,406
I'm glad you (Artist) realize that 'Ring times aren't important to these companies, so why are they so goddamn important to you?! You bring them up all the time, talking about how much better Pagani's cars are using the same example of a test that many people on here, Koenigsegg fans or not, believe was biased towards Pagani. And when someone brings up another test, such as the Top Gear one which saw the CCX beat the Zonda F, you just ignore it!
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
and it has been public stated by Pagani that the Huayra will be the class leader in 0-300-0kmh. Maybe its a class below the Agera
Nov 9, 2012 | 01:00 PM
#147
F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
I'm glad you (Artist) realize that 'Ring times aren't important to these companies, so why are they so goddamn important to you?! You bring them up all the time, talking about how much better Pagani's cars are using the same example of a test that many people on here, Koenigsegg fans or not, believe was biased towards Pagani. And when someone brings up another test, such as the Top Gear one which saw the CCX beat the Zonda F, you just ignore it!
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
The Koenigsegg's turbos fully spool at 2700rpm, and that is quite low down compared to other 1200hp cars. Even before the turbos the engine generates 600hp or more.
You do a great job at picking the smallest things out of everyone's post and then responding with "Pagani has this" or "Well according to this guy Koenigsegg is inferior" without ever giving full supported answers to completely legitmate questions.
Why the times are important to me is, as stated before.
The fact that the N ring is known by the industry as the complete test to a cars performance and behavior.
Like i said earlier for example the Porsche 918 chief engineer said that a lap of the N ring simulates most driving conditions and then some.
So its a really good measuring tool used widely by the industry.
Oh right you just had one question and a lot of accusations.
I can not answer those.
Nov 9, 2012 | 04:48 PM
#148
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
Remind me again about the definition of "conspiracy theories"?
(And the CCR is 806 hp)
It does not make it faster on the road because most people can't handle that power. Pagani is the more sensible car and may be faster with nine out of ten drivers, but Koenigsegg is the faster in the right hands.
It's like when Chris Harris tried to lap a F1 car. He would've been faster around the track in a 458 and this is probably true for a majority of the population, but this doesn't mean that the 458 is faster than a F1. It just means that Chris and those people aren't capable of driving a F1 car without some practice.
Now for the rest, i really do like Ksegg i am from sweden after all, they are the pride and joy of whats left of the swedish car industry.
Ive met Christian 3 times, he is a nice man to say the least.
I think the new car ( Agera) is a stunner, the first car i really liked from them.
It hauls ass like a mofo..and i would really like to drive it on the Ängelholm runway
With all that said, i still feel they make a slightly inferior product to what Pagani makes.
Ive met Christian 3 times, he is a nice man to say the least.
I think the new car ( Agera) is a stunner, the first car i really liked from them.
It hauls ass like a mofo..and i would really like to drive it on the Ängelholm runway
With all that said, i still feel they make a slightly inferior product to what Pagani makes.
Nov 9, 2012 | 04:51 PM
#149
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
Nov 9, 2012 | 04:59 PM
#150
F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
And "every test" would be the one test where there's empiricial evidence things weren't right? Meanwhile we should ignore the unbias tests that was done by two respected players and produced complete opposite results?
Remind me again about the definition of "conspiracy theories"?
Ok, so you're saying that the same gen Zonda is a hot hatch compared to the CCR? That is what you're saying, you know...
(And the CCR is 806 hp)
They're different generations, different drivers, different tyres and different settings. Why would you extrapolate any data from this when there are actual tests done between the same generations, the same tyres, the same drivers and the same settings; done in two different objective and well respected test settings? I does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
Why? According to you it will be "like comparing a 180 hp hot hatch to a BMW M3"? Even more so when the Agera has 400 hp on the Huayra where the CCR only had 250 hp on the Zonda S. You can't have it both ways.
To me if a car is ten seconds faster around the Ring and have much more power it tells me that the cars are reasonably equal but one simply outpowers the other. And that is all I am saying. Koenigsegg has a power to weight that is near equal to Le Mans Protos and it shows on the track.
It does not make it faster on the road because most people can't handle that power. Pagani is the more sensible car and may be faster with nine out of ten drivers, but Koenigsegg is the faster in the right hands.
It's like when Chris Harris tried to lap a F1 car. He would've been faster around the track in a 458 and this is probably true for a majority of the population, but this doesn't mean that the 458 is faster than a F1. It just means that Chris and those people aren't capable of driving a F1 car without some practice.
Chris Harris drives an F1 car - part 1 - by Autocar.co.uk - YouTube
Some of the fastest and most successful Le Mans Prototype cars have been Twin Turbos. Peugot 908, Porsche 911 GT1, Audi R8, Porsche 956... to name a few. And like I've mentioned they have a similar power to weight.
You really should have condensed your contribution in this thread to this short paragraph. Looks better on Koenigsegg, looks better on Pagani and looks better on you. Your country has a lot to be proud of and you should be happy for Zegg's success.
Remind me again about the definition of "conspiracy theories"?
Ok, so you're saying that the same gen Zonda is a hot hatch compared to the CCR? That is what you're saying, you know...
(And the CCR is 806 hp)
They're different generations, different drivers, different tyres and different settings. Why would you extrapolate any data from this when there are actual tests done between the same generations, the same tyres, the same drivers and the same settings; done in two different objective and well respected test settings? I does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
Why? According to you it will be "like comparing a 180 hp hot hatch to a BMW M3"? Even more so when the Agera has 400 hp on the Huayra where the CCR only had 250 hp on the Zonda S. You can't have it both ways.
To me if a car is ten seconds faster around the Ring and have much more power it tells me that the cars are reasonably equal but one simply outpowers the other. And that is all I am saying. Koenigsegg has a power to weight that is near equal to Le Mans Protos and it shows on the track.
It does not make it faster on the road because most people can't handle that power. Pagani is the more sensible car and may be faster with nine out of ten drivers, but Koenigsegg is the faster in the right hands.
It's like when Chris Harris tried to lap a F1 car. He would've been faster around the track in a 458 and this is probably true for a majority of the population, but this doesn't mean that the 458 is faster than a F1. It just means that Chris and those people aren't capable of driving a F1 car without some practice.
Chris Harris drives an F1 car - part 1 - by Autocar.co.uk - YouTube
Some of the fastest and most successful Le Mans Prototype cars have been Twin Turbos. Peugot 908, Porsche 911 GT1, Audi R8, Porsche 956... to name a few. And like I've mentioned they have a similar power to weight.
You really should have condensed your contribution in this thread to this short paragraph. Looks better on Koenigsegg, looks better on Pagani and looks better on you. Your country has a lot to be proud of and you should be happy for Zegg's success.
Ok so show me where black falcon/evo/Pagani/ferrari or Maserati anyone BUT koenigsegg prove that it is not done fairly.
In terms of power it is yes.
Yes i agree everything is different in a test between 2 different publications, or the same publication on different days.
So far the only test made on the same day with the same driver is the Black Falcon one, but it is faulty according to you.
Since the Egg in power has no competition other than the veyron the comparison falls on the Huayra..its natural
Who would you like to drive the egg around the ring?
Is Mark Besseng not good enough? when he did 6:47 in the Zonda R?
Horst von Saurma?
Who do you want? Walter rohrl? or maybe Hakkinen..why not Shumacher?
My point is..if its driven on the ring, it would be easy to say for people with ksegg sympathies that oh well that driver can not drive that car.
And please do not compare the Agera to F1 car.
If it is as hard as drive, then Ksegg obviously failed majorly.