Originally Posted by Guest

Edit: "I concede that this opinion is informed by my lack of seat time in heavier cars"

Does that mean you're offering?

Weight is nearing 4,000 lbs., right?

I learned to drive on a BMW 528e (circa 1300 kg) and drove a miata and an S2000 during high school. For what it's worth a close friend had an E46 M3 and I probably put 500 miles on it myself. It felt way too heavy, even though I got to know the intimate tendencies of the chassis on some nice driving roads.

Originally Posted by M5Kid

Sorry, I think you're stretching your hypothesis here.

I think cost is a major concern, and largely the reason we aren't seeing fuel efficient larger displacement performance motors. Still, you see stuff like Audi's terribly inefficient 340HP 4.2l V8 in the S4, and then the same motor in the RS4, with another 60HP get much better mileage because of some tweaks, mainly FSI technology. Or, the best performing factory car in the world (ZR1) getting 20+ MPG on the highway. Why couldn't companies extrapolate on this and create 500HP NA V8's that get 25+ MPG on the highway?

Originally Posted by M5Kid

And no, I don't pay much attention to divisions outside of consumer cars. I didn't realize there was a set criteria that need be followed in order to be a qualified enthusiast.

Originally Posted by M5Kid

Yes, I realize that much of the motor was reworked, but my point stands: with proper investment and work, these motors can be higher performing, of larger displacement, and efficient.

If you drive any motor hard, you're not going to get the claimed MPG, or anywhere near. However, CAFE - or any other federal legislation - doesn't take driver tendencies into account, just what the car is capable of.

But we're sort of veering away from the point, which is that BMW's decision to take their Motorsport division a different direction isn't motivated all by federal emissions regulations - IMO. There is a ton of evidence and support that makes that hypothesis inconclusive, at best. My best bet is they see a niche, a market that has great potential, and they are looking to capitalize on it. I admit it's idyllic to think BMW is really interested in getting to their roots as they state, but I think we can all agree that if their marketing department didn't find solid evidence that this notion would sell to consumers, they wouldn't be stating it.

Originally Posted by chuck z

With the possible exception of the S2000 none of them are what I would consider performance cars but it does help me understand where you're coming from..... We're from two different worlds when it comes to sports car experiences. I too drove a friends E46 M3 found it felt vasstly under powered. Torque can change your world....

Originally Posted by Guest

Torque has nothing to do with handling. Obviously, based on the cars I have owned, my preferences don't indicate that straight line performance is a big concern for me. It gets old fast.

Originally Posted by chuck z

Exactly, sure helps at the exit of a corner though plus you've got to get to the next corner! BOTH TOGETHER are a great combination, you should try it sometime......

Originally Posted by Guest

Both together is a tough balancing act. You know that.

Originally Posted by chuck z

I do and the BS does both very very well..... One drive in one and it will change your life I'm on some of the MB boards and the comment most new owners have is one of complete amazement of this car's capabilities right out of the box. Personally, I have NEVER driven another car (over the course of 17 years, my wife and I have owned over 50 mostly performace cars/SUVs so my base of comparison is fairly large) nearly as impressive as the BS.

Any way you slice it, we all have our preferences when it comes to what we prefer in our cars. If we didn't we'd all be driving black Fords.......

Have fun!

Originally Posted by chuck z

If the technology exists to make large displacement more fuel efficient motors then why is not a single manufacturer using it. I think legislation combined with media coverage (gas guzzling, non-green, forcing it down our throat, car companies....) has everything to do with why car manufacturers are moving to smaller high efficiency motors. Otherwise, why in the midst of horsepower wars would Audi and BMW suddenly decide to step back in time and put smaller more fuel efficient motors in their performance cars? Sorry but, I will never buy that they are doing it for the reasons stated/implied in this thread. No manufacturer "cares" that much about their base, especially the base from yester year.....

Originally Posted by chuck z

Exactly, sure helps at the exit of a corner though plus you've got to get to the next corner! BOTH TOGETHER are a great combination, you should try it sometime......