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Was thinking Z4M .. now Cayman S?

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Old Oct 5, 2011 | 03:07 PM
  #31  
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Never drove a Z, but I have spent quite a bit if time behind the wheel of a Cayman. Really fun car, you can't help but toss it through the corners.
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by h20skier
caymen porsche
z4 not a porsche
seems pretty easy to me.
didn't you drive a s2000 for a long time? z coupes look the same to me.
go with something fresh.
who can add anything over Simba's review
I thought our handbag conversations established that I am not a brand whore.

S2000 was a super fun car. Would get another!! Z Roadster might be similar, but Z coupe is just as different as the Cayman IMO aside from engine location.
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:05 PM
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Another angle: Credit to Finnegan on Zpost

Okay, I promised a compare at some point, so after several weeks of driving the Cayman S I can offer a pretty good comparison. Let me say right from the start that I do not have a favorite. Set aside all other issues and focusing on how much fun they are to drive they're about equal. They're different in how they supply that fun, but both of them bring a smile to my face whenever I drive them.

Okay, here we go....

The Cars and Stats

07 Z4M with CDV, RE transmission mounts, 18” 235/265 Star Specs, -1.5 front camber and -2.0 rear (toe front .02 and rear .2 IIRC), stock dampers and springs, Eisenmann sport exhaust. No other mods.

Gen I 07 Cayman S 6MT with CDV (Porsche electronic version), 19” 235/265 PS2s, -.5 front camber and -1.5 rear camber (toe front .04 and rear .08 ). No PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management—just springs and dampers). Note: camber plates in transit! Just like the Z4M this car pushes like mad with the silly stock camber settings....

Balance/Suspension
Cayman > Z4M
The Cayman is less nervous than the Z4M and more composed—especially on less-than-perfect pavement (e.g. not the track). This is especially true in corners where a bump mid-corner or going over rises (where the suspension loads and unloads) upsets the Z4M. In the Cayman it's a “meh” moment—while in the Z4M it's unsettling. The Cayman simply has the best balance of anything I've ever been in—it's predictable and balanced and responsive. The Z4M is a bit more twitchy. On roads with less than desirable surfaces (bumps) the Cayman hunkers down better whereas the Z4M tends to get a lot of “bounce” with the rubber spending less time on the payment than the Cayman. I haven't had either to the track, but I'd assume that in a smoother environment the differences would be much less obvious (with the exception of sections of track where the Z4M might get “light”).

Daily Driver
Cayman > Z4M
Well, Skelekitty will probably disagree with me, but I'd pick the Cayman here, but not by a large margin. The ride quality, even with the 19s (which most people find “too harsh”) doesn't fatigue me as much as the Z4M. Maybe I'm just getting old! Neither car could be considered as a "comfort focused" car...the general public would find either far to harsh as a DD--but we don't give a rat's *** about them do we. A Cayman with PASM offers a lot of comfort (but at a price of course)--but that's really outside the scope of this comparison.

Steering
Cayman = Z4M
Both are wonderful and offer excellent feedback. The Z4M is a bit over caffeinated and the Cayman S is less nervous. This may give the Cayman S a slight edge. I prefer the beefier steering wheel on the Z4M, and a future mod will be a GT3 (thicker) steering wheel--but that's a personal preference. Note: The Cayman S' PS pump can overheat on the track if you run wider tires, a lot of camber, or in very hot conditions. The Gen II car doesn't have this issue at all.

Brakes
Cayman = Z4M
The Cayman has multi-pot brakes, and for a few bucks you can add GT3 cooling ducts if you need them. The pedal feel is much more progressive (and much firmer) than the Z4M's brakes which is something I prefer. However, some folks have had issues with total brake lock out on the track with the Cayman ("ice pedal"). Best folks can come up with is that the traction control/ABS gets "confused" and freezes things up. Not confidence inspiring. I haven't heard of that happening with the Z4M.

Differential
Z4M > Cayman (Gen II LSD is not robust, essentially gone after a few thousand miles; Gen I is open diff). There are options TBD (Quaife) and LSD (Guard) that I believe run about 2K for the Cayman S.

Cabin and Storage Space
Cayman > Z4M
The Cayman has a large hatch area, front trunk, and a massive amount of storage space in the cabin (armrests are storage areas, the glove box is huge—the Porsche manuals which are larger than those for the Z4M fit with room to spare for a lot of other things). The interior is less enclosed and there's more room for larger/taller drivers (me).

Engine
Z4M > Cayman
The S54, especially in it's final form in the Z4M is pretty much bulletproof. The engine has 8K vs. 7K revs to play with. Take care or it and it will take care of you. The Cayman does have issues to be aware of. Early 06 models had IMS (intermediate shaft) issues. The 06, 07, and 08 engines have oiling issues that largely seem to manifest themselves at the track (especially with mods that allow the car to pull higher Gs). Issue I is the VOS (oil air separator) that may cause the engine to ingest oil. Most often this is simply a puff of smoke, but it may lead to more severe problems (oil starvation and hydrolock). Issue II is an oil-pump/starvation issue which may lead to engine failure. I'm not saying casual track use with a stock suspension set-up will cause your engine to fail--that appears not to be the case. However there's some risk. It's believed that these issues can be addressed with extended sumps, new oil-pan with external/extra oil pump/return, modified VOS. Note: aside from the Turbo and GT3, all 996 and 997s (and of course Boxsters) have these oiling issues to some degree. The DFI engine in the current generation seems to have addressed this as they designed in much better oiling systems. So be aware of that and go in with your eyes open.

Clutch/Shifting
Z4M = Cayman
The Cayman likes to stall in 1st if you don't get the throttle/engagement just right. (I've stalled it 8 times in 6 weeks—I haven't stalled a MT in 20 years—finally have the hang of it. This isn't a clutch issue as much as a throttle issue--it's hard to modulate at low revs.) The Z4M with CDV has that notchy feel and 1st to 2nd grind if you don't pull down and left and denial 3rd to 2nd w/o transmission mounts. The Cayman shifts more smoothly and the feel is a lot better--really good in fact. Where does that leave us? Well, neither is perfect and both have a few quirks. But heck, would either be a sports car w/o a quirk or two? I do like the gearing of the Z4M a bit better as the Cayman is geared too tall in 1st and 2nd (conspiracy theorists contend this was to keep the gap between it and the Carrera noticeable).

$$$
Z4M > Cayman S
The Z4M runs about 10K less than a used Gen I Cayman S. For that 10K, you can buy a BBK, probably add some brake ducting, and a coil-over suspension and still come out ahead. Max camber on the non-PASM Cayman is -.8 (or less), which leaves plates (~400) or GT3 LCAs (1,200+). The Turner kit @30 bucks or some washers gets you all the camber you'll need on the Z4M. If you buy a Gen I like I did and you're looking to make it a hardcore track machine (lots of camber, R comps, GT3 parts, coils) you're looking at somewhere around ~4K to have a car that you can track and not worry about (TTP Oilsafe kit + Motorsport VOS).

Fun
Z4M = Cayman S
Both are a blast to drive. I really find it hard to say one is “best”. They approach the same question (e.g. being a “sports car”) from very different directions. It really matters on my mood and to some degree which road I'm going to drive. The Z4M demands more from the driver—you have to focus 100%--but it gives a lot back in return. The Cayman is more forgiving and seems to inspire more confidence with its mode of attack. But in terms of fun? Toss up!

Bottom Line
If you're planning on tracking your car extensively, or making serious mods and are a highly skilled driver, the Gen II Cayman S is really the way to go. This car is used for spec racing and it's pretty much proven there. I'm still not convinced about DFI largely due to the HPFP issues and carbon build up question, but the oiling and PS issues have been worked out and the car is more "race car" ready. But that's going to cost you—the Z4M even with upgrades to “weak points” (brakes, brake cooling) is probably a cheaper alternative as a track car. As a canyon carver or daily driver, the Cayman S may offer some advantages.

Postscript/Follow-up
I sold the Cayman a mere 7 months after buying it. I contracted the track addiction, and the risks of driving the Cayman a the track (engine, ice-pedal, and power steering system melting) just didn't inspire confidence. I find that I don't miss the Cayman at all and love every minute of owning and driving my Z4M on the street and on the track.
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:15 PM
  #34  
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I think you should go with a late 90's Ford Ranger Pickup
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:23 PM
  #35  
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How about mid-90s? Green with gray? Manual everything?
Sounds like a lateral move IMO ...
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:42 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by wyatth
How about mid-90s? Green with gray? Manual everything?
Sounds like a lateral move IMO ...
I dunno - I hear they made some great "improvements" in the later 90's versions
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:56 PM
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I have had no problems with my Cayman other than the battery life sucking on it. It is more reliable than anything I have had but my Ford trucks.
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 06:22 PM
  #38  
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^ We could do a Ford/Cayman meet at some point


Originally Posted by Fuel&Fire
I dunno - I hear they made some great "improvements" in the later 90's versions
sounds plausible given the easy task and starting point.
 
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