Yes the 4GTS is completely pointless. The whole point with the normal GTS was that it was RWD AND wide body which no other model offered. The 4GTS is just another C4 with different wheels. I really love the GTS and think it's the perfect all round 997. The fairly low production number imo should make it hold it's value at least for a while. Maybe some day...

 

I drove the 991 this morning and it was only the base Carrera model, but my word what a car. I agree with the driving impressions from the OP.

On the bright side, the 997 will always be available in the pre-owned market if the 991 doesn't tick the boxes for you.

 

flame suit? +1 for being....right.

 

Test drove a 991 Carrera S extensively in the mountains. Agree whole heartedly with the negative comparisons with the 997. Not selling my GTS anytime soon. I like my stable the way it is.

 

Honest question here...

Some of us are looking forward to perhaps owning the more "hardcore" versions of the 911 - the GT3, GT2, etc.

If one of the 991's achilles heel is the steering feel due to the electric assist, be it an 'electric' or as in the past a 'hydraulic' assist. Why has Porsche not developed or had an option for a purely mechanical, no power-steering at all non-assist?

Sure, maneuvering around at low speeds would require more effort, but I for one could use the workout. Once you got going though, ease of steering effort would improve as well as feel, correct?

Thanks to the OP and the rest of you posting your comments thus far.

 

Thank Zeus and thanks for all who have posted with their impressions on the new 991. Here is how Chris Harris described his experience with the 991 and in a much more eloquent way than I did. A lot of mixed feelings as you can tell after reading.

911 CARRERA S v 997 GT3 IN THE SHADOW OF GREATNESS

The new 911 Carrera S is said to be as fast as the previous-generation GT3 road-racer. It’s also rumoured to be just as good to drive. Chris Harris finds out if it’s true.

I wouldn’t want to manage an icon; it must be a thankless task. Especially a motoring icon, something that has to progress at – or ahead of – the rate of technological change and still somehow remain the same; to change and yet somehow remain unchanged.
The new 911, internal code 991, is arguably the biggest physical change to the Porsche-staple in its 46-year history because its structure is now half aluminium. So if the shift from air- to water-cooling back in 1997 provided the greatest philosophical change for the world’s most recognisible sports car, the 991 challenges the very conventions of what constitutes a 911 in more subtle and profound ways.

It begins with that new body structure. This isn’t a full aluminium body in the Audi A8 mould – instead Porsche has done the sensible thing and balanced weight-saving against the need for a stiffer structure than the 997 shell, which was itself almost identical to the 996. So the wings, lids and the roof are aluminium, as is much of the floor. The rest is highstrength steel and the result is a body-in-white that is 80kg lighter than before. That’s a big saving, especially when you consider the 20 per cent improvement in torsional rigidity.

But for me the biggest change isn’t in the construction or the materials used in this new structure, it’s the amount of room between the holes for the front wheels and the back wheels. The 911 has always been defined by its short wheelbase – the 991 flips this historical fact into the dustbin and adds a huge 100mm into the equation. The argument for doing so was simple – improved cabin space, better stability at speed and greater cabin refinement. But will this augur badly for those signature 911 driving characteristics: nimbleness, the feeling of driving the car through that rear axle?

If Porsche learnt one thing about the 997 chassis, it was how well the car responded to a wider front axle. This never appeared on the series cars, but the second-generation GT3 RS was gifted a wider front track and some slightly wider front tyres. On paper the difference wasn’t significant, but it transformed the way the car drove, so it’s not surprising to see that 52mm has been added to the front track of the new Carrera S, though it should be stressed that the overall width of the vehicle at 1808mm is the same as the old wide-body 997.

‘PORSCHE IS SAYING A 991 ON STANDARD SUSPENSION AND TYRES WILL LAP THE RING AS FAST AS A GT3’

And so the wider track and longer wheelbase are the big dynamic news. The engines are not carry-over items from the last 997, but they are effectively light evolutions of the DFIunits seen in the 997 facelift cars from 2008 onwards. Power for the Carrera S is 394bhp at 7400rpm, torque is 325lb ft at 5600rpm. Zero to 62mph takes a claimed 4.1sec with the optional PDK transmission and Sport Plus package. The claimed lap time around the Nürburgring Nordschleife is 7min 40sec.

Now, that last figure rather stopped me in my tracks when I heard it. Like you, I am sceptical of Ring lap times and mostly dismissive of what they actually say about a sports car’s on-road credentials, but this stands out because Porsche is now saying that a 991 on standard suspension and rubber will lap the German place as fast as a 997 GT3. This, I confess, was hard to believe. So hard that we needed to understand the ramifications for ourselves – out on the public highway.

Forget the Nürburgring. There is no harsher predicament for a recently superceded machine than sitting stationary next to its replacement. Does the 997 suddenly look old? I’m afraid it does – but not necessarily in a bad way. In its details and jewellery, the 991 is sharper, more alluring and more cleverly executed, and there are shapes in this new 911 that you simply cannot see in still pictures – especially the front wings, which rise from the trailing edge of the light unit and then fall back towards the base of the A-pillar. The new car is technically more voluminous, but also visually so. You might call it a little buxom. I like it.

Mind you, I still think the 997 GT3 gen.1 looks the business. Its rear wing appears to be ageing more gracefully than the one which replaced it, and of course the GT3 has one attribute the new car cannot match – ride height. Everything about the Mezger-engined car’s styling is pulling it down into the surface: splitters, spoilers and nary a slit of fresh air between Michelin and coachwork. It looks way tougher than the 991, but then so it should.

We are not here to compare the strategic differences between Porsche’s everyday cars and its more extreme offerings: you know why they aren’t valid rivals. But one aspect of Porsche’s message accompanying the new car has been consistent: it claims the 991 is much better to drive than the car it replaces. Project boss August Achleitner was absolutely adamant when I spoke to him at the Frankfurt show that despite all the gains in comfort, efficiency and golf-bag stowage (I made the last one up), we had to judge the car as a driving machine – after which he just settled himself with a grin so subtle it made Roger Moore look like Jack Nicholson.

Does Herr Achleitner protest too much? On paper he’s betting the family fortune on a three-legged horse. He’s given us a car that is bigger, more luxurious, has no proper handbrake and whose steering is now electrically assisted. So there are two questions to be answered here. The first is a straightforward assessment of the new 991: is it actually any good? The second is tougher: how does it compare with one of the great 911 driving experiences of the past 30 years: the 997 GT3?

‘IT’S BEAUTIFULLY DAMPED, RIDING SOME ATROCIOUS SURFACES WITH A DIGNITY AT ODDS WITH THE MASSIVE 20in WHEELS’

It doesn’t start well. It’s taken nearly half a century for the 911 to succumb to the homogenisation of the car interior, but apart from the central rev-counter, Porsche appears to have taken a conservative approach. The centre console sits high and the buttons, scripts and shapes will be familiar to anyone who’s ridden in a Panamera. The seat adjusts electrically and sinks low enough, but I can’t bring the wheel quite close enough to my chest. Best not pass too hasty a judgment on that: I’ve never been able to find the right driving position in a 911 when stationary, only to never give it another thought after 40mins driving the thing. Here’s hoping the 991 manages the same trick.
Twist the Panamera-derived key and the 3.8 fires with quite a raucous rip of throttle, then idles.

This car has the PDK transmission, which is a shame because I was desperate to get a crack in the new seven-speed manual, but I suppose most people will choose this option, so we need to reflect the reality of the marketplace. And it has to be said that for crawling out of Santa Barbara, trying not to crush the hundreds of septuagenarian joggers who line the streets like half-emaciated kerb-stones, two pedals is probably the sensible option. As an automatic, the 991 is disappointingly convincing to this particular member of the movement for the protection of three-pedal motoring. It moos along without a flutter.

We head north on the freeway in search of the decent roads that have been promised, the dreariness of the 65mph limit restricting our progress. At this speed, the 991 is so much better than a 997 in one single but crucial area that it alone could persuade many people from old into new: tyre noise. The 997 was a very talented car, but it had an unrivalled ability to not only filter roar into the cabin, but channel the stuff directly into the lug ’ole of the poor driver. It made the car wearing over distances. The 991 doesn’t suffer the same problem: tyre noise is present, but not invasive. There’s a little flutter of air-flow and the motor does that 911 thing of leaving noise behind the car very effectively, then waking with a sudden waaaaaah! of intake at the driver’s behest. It’s soothing, and the ride comfort is good with the dampers set to soft.

‘IT WOULD APPEAR THAT PORSCHE HAS ATTEMPTED TO MAKE THE 911 HANDLE LIKE A CAYMAN’

Eventually we leave the freeway and jink left onto a minor road. It is the type of road I didn’t think existed in America, let alone California: mixed surfaces, fast sections, slow sections and – here’s the good stuff – savage direction changes to test this new long-wheelbase Beetle.
I go first in the 991. Tell a lie: actually, I sit and fiddle with the dreadful electronic handbrake release down by my left knee. Those negative thoughts then transfer to other aspects of the cabin – why impose such drastic technology on a 911 when the rev-counter and its ungainly, recessed LED readout for the gear selection look about as modern as a VHS recorder? Never mind. Being childish, I switch the sports exhaust on, bung the PDK lever into Manual to use the steering wheel paddles, leave the dampers in Miss Daisy mode and head off down that road.
Herr Achleitner did not lie. You do need to drive this car to understand why its comfort aspirations should not be of concern to people who love driving 911s. It is beautifully damped, riding some atrocious surfaces with a dignity at odds with those massive 20in wheels. But it’s the behaviour of the car on the entry to turns that has me chuckling. The great irony of the Porsche range has always been its need to protect the 911 from all rivals, especially internal ones – hence the need to restrain that little upstart, the Cayman. Well, as if to perpetuate the irony, it would appear that Porsche has attempted to make the 911 handle like a Cayman. This, in case you are unaware, is a good thing. A very good thing.

A cleverer man than me, with a decent grasp of technology, might be able to define the difference between 997 and Cayman during the entry phase to a bend – the elapsed time from electrical brain-wave to squishing tread-blocks. The Cayman has always been cleaner and clearer in this respect. The 991 nearly matches it.
And it isn’t until this point that I think to myself: cripes, the steering’s electric. I hadn’t even noticed – too distracted by the chassis’ responses and the surprisingly engaging PDK transmission, which now has some proper guts about it (it’s crisper, much more like a Nissan GT-R ’box and it just works in this package). This rack is the standard by which all future electric systems will be judged – much of that shimmy and chatter has been subdued, but the system uses a kind of digitised feedback to try to replace those slight wriggles that have characterised 911 steering for decades. Is it as good as a hydraulic rack? Nope. Did it get in the way of me enjoying the car? Nope.

The GT3 is Slayer (live) to the 991’s string quartet. The motor rattles and pings at idle, the suspension thumps, and the steering wheel seems intent on rubbing your palms raw with fidgeting and wrenching. The manual gearbox is an annoyance for the first few minutes, then you soften to its charms – it seems quaint, and then, soon afterwards, you revel in the control it brings: the connection it gives you with the car. This machine is a chatterbox: the nose bobs and weaves, the steering gabbles, the engine has real bite above 5000rpm and, on these bumpy roads the firm set-up (and some old front tyres) make it a real handful. It requires so much more from the driver. But there is one thing that person cannot possibly offer: the skill to get the car into and through a turn as effectively as the 991. It isn’t possible; the game has moved on.

For base thrills, to use once a week, the GT3 can do things the 991 cannot, largely because the 991 is just too damn good to titillate in the same manner. There isn’t much between them in terms of outright performance either; in fact the PDK’s extra efficiency probably makes it the faster street car and the claimed Ring lap time seems entirely plausible.

It’s also surprising to note how special the DFI engine feels, even in the presence of the GT3’s classic flat-six. If anything, the intake noise is more strident on the new car – even if it is harmonic witchcraft – and its mechanical smoothness is uncanny. With the optional sports exhaust, it also sounds spectacular from the outside. If the DFI-engined 997s struggled on the music front, the 991 is much more extrovert. For all that, the GT3 has the more inspirational motor. It feels like a lightly rationalised race engine for good reason – that’s exactly what it is.

But it’s as an object that the 991 makes its predecessor seem positively ancient. The new cabin loses a few marks for being less driver-centric, but the materials and construction immediately make it feel a class more expensive. This stuff often passes me by, but I felt it immediately here: the 991 is beautifully built.

‘FOR BASE THRILLS, TO USE ONCE A WEEK, THE GT3 CAN DO THINGS THE 991 CANNOT’

As for the murky subject of options, sadly now is not the time to talk you through them all because I have only driven this ruby red car. It was fitted with PDCC (Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control) with adjustable roll bars and servotronic steering which reverts to normal weighting above 30mph. I thought it was a rounded package that struck an enviable balance of comfort and aggression: in fact I can’t think of another car that can switch so quickly from freeway-slob to scratcher. It’s worth noting how flat the car remains in all the cornering shots.

If the GT3 still possesses a magic we sincerely hope reappears in its replacement, then the new car only just loses that battle and counters with a whole world of usability. Its operating window is so broad you might convince yourself that the car is lacking emotion.

And you’d be wrong. Drive the 991 like a getaway driver and it will, to coin a phrase, moisten your forehead. The intake noise is compelling, as is the car’s willingness to oversteer – I know it’s irrelevant, but knowing the newer, interminably clever 991 can paint black lines somehow makes me feel more relaxed about the future. I didn’t think about the driving position again.

 

Interesting read...so if i get it right... the 991, by pushing the limit further, actually moves the pleasure zone (what some of us are passionate about) way beyond legal speed limits...you need to push it hard for the fun to start...rather boring before that

This is surely an achievement but don't we buy these cars for the passion they provide? This is now only achievable on the track...sad. I just got an RS 4.0 and I can tell you I feel the passion even when the car is stationnary

Now this is the best 911 to get

 

Nicely said!

 

You guys DO realize that its Electo-Mechanical, right?

It's not a fully electronic steering, it's still connected to the front wheels.

If any of you have lengthy experience on the 997mkI cars and remember the steering feel change ont the 997mkII cars- it's like that- another refinement to the steering.

Anyone who complains about the steering feel on a 991 must just crash every other BMW M or Mercedes AMG- everytime they get in the car.

Oh, that's right, they don't. Hmmph. 'Magin that! Shocking!!


Play on playa

 

sarcastic SOB

but your right