School might be in session, but your one professor I would tune out. Why? Cause you have a obvious dislike for the a player. You might say you have nothing against the guy, and you respect his game... but your posts say otherwise.

Now, regarding Jordan. I am in complete agreement. In order for Kobe to surpass him, he has much to accomplish. Which is why I described him as "arguably" the greatest. Not THE greatest.

As far as PJ coming back. Yeah, he came back to satisfy Jeannie... that was the only reason. Not the drive to win more championships, and become the greatest coach to ever coach in the NBA. Yeah, Kobe is totally unapproachable... he's so damn selfish, he's sitting on his 4th ring by himself. That selfish bastard, how could he... he broke the team up, and everybody hates him. Yet they won despite all of that right??? You sit there at paint a picture of the current Lakers team, as if they are a team in disarray. The hate for a player clouds your judgment.

Bottom line is, if Kobe was so uncoachable, PJ wouldnt have come back... he did, and in his 3rd season back that uncoachable, selfish player, and his teammates won a championship.

At least admit you dislike Kobe, and we can all stop arguing with you.

 

Good post but I am not sure about the last comment. Check with Brad Sellers, Will Perdue, et al. MJ is still #1 with Kobe and Lebron sharing an outside chance of surpassing if the can get at least 7 championships. #1 NBA Player- yes; best teammate and good dude- not really....

 

If Kobe has much to accomplish to surpass Jordan, then how could KB "arguably" be the greatest?? You're one of KB's biggest fans, and even you can't place him ahead of MJ at this time. Do you say the sprinters who finish second to Usain Bolt are arguably the fastest of all time? That's what your twisted logic here is essentially saying.

Now if you had been a little more realistic by saying that if Kobe continues to play at a high level for X number of additional seasons, he may arguably be greater than MJ, you wouldn't have gotten disagreement from anyone here. Until then, why don't you just admit your love of Kobe caused you to type a statement that is nowhere close to reality just yet?

And why are you trying to convince us about Phil Jackson's motives? Do you think that he would've come back for all the reasons you state if Jeanie Buss weren't part of the Laker organization? Because PJ's very own words run counter to that. His own actions run counter to that. Are you calling him a liar? Are you that tight with him that you know his very inner thoughts?

Your reading comprehension needs to improve considerably, as well. I've never said that the current Kobe is uncoachable, and that the current team is suffering from strained relations b/c of KB. The Lakers are nowhere near as tight of a team as recent champs such as the Celtics or Spurs, but there have been a lot of championship teams in a variety of sports that didn't have a great clubhouse atmosphere.

Now was KB an issue for PJ and the Lakers a number of seasons ago? Absolutely. He would deviate from the game plan too often. Worse, he flat out quit on the team during some key games (something Jordan and the other greats would NEVER do). Is it any wonder that Jackson walked, and Kobe (with his blessing until the last moment) nearly became a Bull?

 

Sure dude... keep getting personal. You can comment on my reading comprehension all you want. It's not gonna change the fact that you make statements in your posts, that only somebody who actually played on the team should be making.

Really? Where you with them as they played every game last season? Or do you believe everything ESPN tells you? Are you a Lakers fan? Are you even in L.A.? And what indication, if any, do you have that the Lakers aren't a tight nit group of players?

Don't sit there and call out my reading comprehension, when you make blatant accusations about thing you couldn't possibly know about.

 

^^^^^^
Fusion, I am with thedude here. You and I have had our debates, and you have raised some interesting and often good points. However, your comments do often cross over to the level of "personal" in nature, and you have contradicted yourself numerous times. Lets try to keep the potentially insulting comments limited to the players. Insult Kobe all you want .

The comments you are making about Kobe, his leadership abilities and his chemistry with this team seem to reference issues that transpired several years ago. Any fan of any team is going to color their comments with myopia at times, however, I find it difficult to refute that fact that Kobe has grown up and developed into a leader of the highest order. Ariza's departure was stunning, but had nothing to do with Kobe, it had to do with "amateur hour" negotiation tactics by his agent. The Artest experiment will either take this Laker team to a whole new level, or PJ will send him to the end of the bench. Unlike the Payton/Malone experiment of 2004, the Lakers do not need Artest. re-signing Odom seems like a forgone conclusion at this point.

Again, lets keep the insults limited to the players and coaches, and stay away from insulting each other.

 

Dang, there's a lot of touchy people on this board. I bring up reading comprehension b/c you keep saying I hate/dislike Kobe. I keep telling you that's not the case. I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies in your statements.

As for how "tight" the Lakers team is/was, it's been confirmed by numerous beat writers who follow the NBA that Kobe doesn't have nearly the level of non-game interaction with his teammates as other stars such as Lebron or KG. Maybe my statement should have been more along the lines of "the Lakers have a bigger disconnect between their superstar and the rest of the team than other superstars do with their teams", since the rest of the team could very well be a tight-knit group.

But my statement isn't a stab in the dark. Anyone who follows the NBA thru the media would be aware of this. It's the same way that Giants fans knew that Barry Bonds had minimal interaction with most of his teammates, or that A-Rod isn't a very popular player in the Yankees locker room.

Heck, the recent Spike Lee "documentary" about Kobe should be a big tip-off if you attend many Laker games. I have friends who have season tix within easy hearing distance of the Laker bench, and they remembered that game in the documentary. Folks in the seats around them were all commenting on how Kobe was way more animated and vocal on the bench during that game than he typically was. Was it coincidence that he knew there were a bunch of cameras and mics trained on his every action? My buddies who attend every game knew better.

Or are you so tight with the Lakers team that you've been out repeatedly with them when Kobe was around and everyone was showering him with love and affection? If you're going to try and refute what someone is saying, your position might be stronger if you presented proof or evidence to the contrary.


I didn't realize I've contradicted myself numerous times. Can you point me to the 3 most egregious examples? I'd really like to know where I'm flipflopping.

And BigE, I've stated during this thread that the Kobe of 2009 is definitely more mature than the Kobe of 2004 and 2007. But "leader of the highest order" is a pretty tall order here. Let's not lose sight of the fact that Kobe wanted out after the Lakers got bounced in the 2007 playoffs (and only ended up staying b/c he didn't like the trade package that would've sent him to Chicago), or that he only had 3 FG attempts in the second half of a Game 7 loss to to Phoenix in the 2006 playoffs (something MJ or Magic or Bill Russell or other greats would've never done to their team). Guys like Lamar Odom and Luke Walton were on the squad then. You can't assume that "forgive and forget" is something that's practiced universally by NBA players.

 

If you really want me to read through several hundred posts spanning several NBA playoff related threads to find the specific group of quotes for no other reason than indulge your seemingly incessant need to always be right and always win every argument, there is no way that is happening.

Here is the abridged version; (not word for word)

You said the Denver Nuggets have a better roster of players than the Lakers.

You said that point guard play was going to lead to the Lakers ultimate demise against the Nuggets.

You said the Laker bench was essentially useless.

You said that Kobe was a terrible leader and the reason that Shaq and Phil left the Lakers in very strong words that implied that he was the ONLY reason both of them left.

You said(in one way or another) on numerous occasions that this Laker team lacked the heart, talent and desire to win an NBA championship.

You said that Cavs were able to steamroll every team they played and no one was going to beat them.

I could go on and on.

My guess is that you are going to go back and read all of your posts and post a bunch of quotes to prove me wrong. Go ahead. I am done arguing this point with you.

It is obvious you hate Kobe and wanted to see the Lakers lose. Kobe is no angel, but neither was your beloved MJ. Who knows what would have gotten out about MJ if he was subjected to the level of media scrutiny, public media access, 24/7/365 coverage, bloggers, internet trolls and sleazy reporters looking to find any cracks in the armor of our heroes that today's players have to deal with, especially Kobe.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. No one is perfect. You cannot dispute the fact that Kobe is on top of his game, on the best team in the NBA and has the respect of every player and coach in the NBA (except maybe shaq )

You told thedude he needs to brush up on his reading comprehension. I am telling you that no one is always right......myself, and yourself included.

 

Does this guarantee the Cavs a title?

No.

Does Shaq have anything left in the tank?

Yes.

Does this create world's new best comedy duo?

Possibly.

 

I am hoping Shaq signs with Nike so a Shaq puppet can be added to the mix

Kobe Puppet - "Shaq, have you seen my FOUR rings, I seemed to have misplaced my FOUR rings?"

Shaq Puppet - "They're right over there next to MY four rings"

Kobe Puppet - "Has anyone seen Lebron's rings?"

Shaq Puppet - "All I can see are his high school championship trophies"

 

Ah, so you're saying my opinions were wrong on the list you provided. I'm not going to argue that.

But "contradicting" myself? You do understand what the definition of contradiction or contradict is, don't you? If I were stating that the Nuggets had the better roster than the Lakers, then afterwards said/claimed that the Lakers had the better roster than the Nuggets, that is a contradiction. Simply being wrong about the Nuggets not winning the series is not in and of itself a contradiction.

I gave my opinions/predictions on a variety of upcoming outcomes that turned out to be wrong. Your mistake is trying to define those as contradictions.

Apology accepted......