Red Bull using a compact KERS?
Mar 26, 2011 | 11:41 AM
#1
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Red Bull using a compact KERS?
Saw this commentary on TotalF1 and thought it was interesting. I would think that toward the end of the race the KERS cars would be able to make up ground.
"A KERS system that does not charge under brakes"
Rumours
After the astonishing pole position drive from Sebastian Vettel questions arose about how he did it without the use of KERS. Now rumours are floating around the paddock that Red Bull are using a special compact KERS system which does not charge under braking but instead is charged only in the garage and used at the start of a race. When Mark Webber was asked about himself not using KERS he replied "We didn't run it today for reasons we will keep in the team."
Advantages
So if the Red Bull duo are not running a normal KERS system then what is the gain? Well without the need to charge under braking it will allow for far better brake balance within the car giving the drivers better control of the car. Not only that but the system would probably be considerably smaller and thus weighing a lot less then the standard KERS systems. As well as this it takes one less potential problem out of the frame. If a car has a KERS failure it will be a dead weight on the car not to mention that it will ruin the car brake balance. A start-only KERS would not cause these problem in the result of a failure.
Disadvantages
If this is true it certainly would be able to explain the 0.7 gap to Lewis but does not explain Mark Webber's lack of pace compared to his younger team mate. What we will have to wait to find out is how this does in race conditions. They will use all their KERS energy to get away at the start meaning that they do not have a deficit where it is most important but how about the rest of the lap? If Lewis' KERS system works as well as Vettel's on the start and he is within a second of Vettel when they cross the line onto lap two then Lewis has both the rear wing and KERS to go past Vettel who would be helpless with only the moveable rear wing to help. Same goes for if Lewis (or any other driver for that matter) gets past Vettel then how is he going to attack a KERS system.
Red Bull had better hope that if the rumours are true then the advantages of a smaller KERS system will allow for enough gain to make the other teams KERS redundant.
Posted by Sean Russell - Follow him on twitter @SeanRussellF1. Red Bull using a compact KERS?
"A KERS system that does not charge under brakes"
Rumours
After the astonishing pole position drive from Sebastian Vettel questions arose about how he did it without the use of KERS. Now rumours are floating around the paddock that Red Bull are using a special compact KERS system which does not charge under braking but instead is charged only in the garage and used at the start of a race. When Mark Webber was asked about himself not using KERS he replied "We didn't run it today for reasons we will keep in the team."
Advantages
So if the Red Bull duo are not running a normal KERS system then what is the gain? Well without the need to charge under braking it will allow for far better brake balance within the car giving the drivers better control of the car. Not only that but the system would probably be considerably smaller and thus weighing a lot less then the standard KERS systems. As well as this it takes one less potential problem out of the frame. If a car has a KERS failure it will be a dead weight on the car not to mention that it will ruin the car brake balance. A start-only KERS would not cause these problem in the result of a failure.
Disadvantages
If this is true it certainly would be able to explain the 0.7 gap to Lewis but does not explain Mark Webber's lack of pace compared to his younger team mate. What we will have to wait to find out is how this does in race conditions. They will use all their KERS energy to get away at the start meaning that they do not have a deficit where it is most important but how about the rest of the lap? If Lewis' KERS system works as well as Vettel's on the start and he is within a second of Vettel when they cross the line onto lap two then Lewis has both the rear wing and KERS to go past Vettel who would be helpless with only the moveable rear wing to help. Same goes for if Lewis (or any other driver for that matter) gets past Vettel then how is he going to attack a KERS system.
Red Bull had better hope that if the rumours are true then the advantages of a smaller KERS system will allow for enough gain to make the other teams KERS redundant.
Posted by Sean Russell - Follow him on twitter @SeanRussellF1.
Last edited by TeutonicCarFan; Mar 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM.
Mar 26, 2011 | 12:13 PM
#2
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 31,976
From: Minnesota
On more than a lap by lap basis (i.e. a full race), I don't see Red Bull's KERS system being advantageous in terms of speed compared to the conventional system. In terms of reliability, simplicity, and drivability though, RB's system could be a winner. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in Melbourne tonight.
This did, however, get me thinking about other ways to use KERS and charge the system. Instead of using brake energy to charge the system, why not use some sort of current induction system tied directly into the axles or even the crankshaft itself? If you have a conductive piece of metal spinning inside of a housing with a magnet, that'd make a current just like an alternator, no? At the crazy speeds that the axles or crankshaft turn at, that should generate plenty of power, no?
I'm just throwing out ideas. I have no clue if anything like this has been tested or if it's even possible.
This did, however, get me thinking about other ways to use KERS and charge the system. Instead of using brake energy to charge the system, why not use some sort of current induction system tied directly into the axles or even the crankshaft itself? If you have a conductive piece of metal spinning inside of a housing with a magnet, that'd make a current just like an alternator, no? At the crazy speeds that the axles or crankshaft turn at, that should generate plenty of power, no?
I'm just throwing out ideas. I have no clue if anything like this has been tested or if it's even possible.
Mar 27, 2011 | 01:21 AM
#4
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,671
From: Florida
On more than a lap by lap basis (i.e. a full race), I don't see Red Bull's KERS system being advantageous in terms of speed compared to the conventional system. In terms of reliability, simplicity, and drivability though, RB's system could be a winner. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in Melbourne tonight.
This did, however, get me thinking about other ways to use KERS and charge the system. Instead of using brake energy to charge the system, why not use some sort of current induction system tied directly into the axles or even the crankshaft itself? If you have a conductive piece of metal spinning inside of a housing with a magnet, that'd make a current just like an alternator, no? At the crazy speeds that the axles or crankshaft turn at, that should generate plenty of power, no?
I'm just throwing out ideas. I have no clue if anything like this has been tested or if it's even possible.
This did, however, get me thinking about other ways to use KERS and charge the system. Instead of using brake energy to charge the system, why not use some sort of current induction system tied directly into the axles or even the crankshaft itself? If you have a conductive piece of metal spinning inside of a housing with a magnet, that'd make a current just like an alternator, no? At the crazy speeds that the axles or crankshaft turn at, that should generate plenty of power, no?
I'm just throwing out ideas. I have no clue if anything like this has been tested or if it's even possible.
Mar 27, 2011 | 04:18 AM
#5
Teamspeed Rookie
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 13
From: Lebanon
It showed in today's race that webber didn't use his KERS, which appeared to be fully charged, in his fight for 4th with alonso. That theory about a compact KERS might be true after all.
that is an interesting idea, but sadly it is not possible, and that is for many reasons, most importantly it will put a load on the axle which will reduce largely the brake horsepower of the car( the brake horsepower or bhp is the real power delivered at the wheels ) and also, the weight of the magnets used will kill the car ( the magnets and the coils used weigh a lot, and F1 cars should be as light as possible ). It is really amazing how the KERS system (the motor/generator unit,the batteries and the differential system ) weighs about 20 kg only.
This did, however, get me thinking about other ways to use KERS and charge the system. Instead of using brake energy to charge the system, why not use some sort of current induction system tied directly into the axles or even the crankshaft itself? If you have a conductive piece of metal spinning inside of a housing with a magnet, that'd make a current just like an alternator, no? At the crazy speeds that the axles or crankshaft turn at, that should generate plenty of power, no?
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