McLaren back at the Ring' with the P1
Nov 14, 2013 | 05:59 AM
#161
F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
You are looking for help 'understanding how some can find the decision acceptable' but if you discount every word written in response then you can't be helped.
Pretty clear by now you are not really looking for an answer, but rather further opportunities to express your displeasure. You just want to be upset and through the power of your keyboard and this forum you're going to let the world know - you'll continue to be until you get your P1 Ring time which you ought to realize by now is not going to be released. I expected that kind of response from the moment I read the EVO piece and could have given you a pretty accurate list of names of the users across various forums who would be leading charge. Predictability is funny.
No - my reason, long before the time wasn't released, was that these times don't really matter. Again, no oversight and no restrictions. A manufacturer can show up with a 'Ringer' and run whatever setup they want in an effort to produce the time that will make the best headline. These are never production cars straight off the assembly line and there are no controls in place governing the changes that have been made to maximize performance. Weather and driver skill also play a huge factor on this track unlike any other. You can't truly compare these times just because they run a similar distance. If you think that you can, or that they are always representative of reality, or that any manufacturer always tells the truth ( except McLaren
) then again you are fooling yourself here. If McLaren had released their time they'd be enduring a similar backlash over cheating I am sure - what tire compounds, how much extra boost, where did they gut the weight and so on. It's a vicious cycle with these things and is even more proof that the actual times are irrelevant.
For a true comparison you'd need to pull together a set of these cars not supplied by the factory, make sure all have fresh tires, give the same Ring-experienced driver some time to get familiar in each one and then run them around the track on the same day. You'll have a far more accurate result worthy of comparison. You'll probably also find that each car will miss the mark of whatever time the manufacturer chose to publish by a not-insignificant percentage and that should surprise no one.
Back to the 'brave and comical' comment I made from the start - brave to change their mind on releasing a time knowing that there would surely be a backlash, and in my opinion comical because all the complaining that has been generated over it is really for what?
Also, I didn't say your posts weren't valued - this has nothing to do with the message forum. I said your opinion doesn't matter - nothing is going to change because you are upset and seem to feel you are owed something. McLaren knew everyone would not be pleased with their decision - they told Nick Trott that from the outset. Pout if you want to.
>8^)
ER
Pretty clear by now you are not really looking for an answer, but rather further opportunities to express your displeasure. You just want to be upset and through the power of your keyboard and this forum you're going to let the world know - you'll continue to be until you get your P1 Ring time which you ought to realize by now is not going to be released. I expected that kind of response from the moment I read the EVO piece and could have given you a pretty accurate list of names of the users across various forums who would be leading charge. Predictability is funny.
No - my reason, long before the time wasn't released, was that these times don't really matter. Again, no oversight and no restrictions. A manufacturer can show up with a 'Ringer' and run whatever setup they want in an effort to produce the time that will make the best headline. These are never production cars straight off the assembly line and there are no controls in place governing the changes that have been made to maximize performance. Weather and driver skill also play a huge factor on this track unlike any other. You can't truly compare these times just because they run a similar distance. If you think that you can, or that they are always representative of reality, or that any manufacturer always tells the truth ( except McLaren
) then again you are fooling yourself here. If McLaren had released their time they'd be enduring a similar backlash over cheating I am sure - what tire compounds, how much extra boost, where did they gut the weight and so on. It's a vicious cycle with these things and is even more proof that the actual times are irrelevant.For a true comparison you'd need to pull together a set of these cars not supplied by the factory, make sure all have fresh tires, give the same Ring-experienced driver some time to get familiar in each one and then run them around the track on the same day. You'll have a far more accurate result worthy of comparison. You'll probably also find that each car will miss the mark of whatever time the manufacturer chose to publish by a not-insignificant percentage and that should surprise no one.
Back to the 'brave and comical' comment I made from the start - brave to change their mind on releasing a time knowing that there would surely be a backlash, and in my opinion comical because all the complaining that has been generated over it is really for what?
Also, I didn't say your posts weren't valued - this has nothing to do with the message forum. I said your opinion doesn't matter - nothing is going to change because you are upset and seem to feel you are owed something. McLaren knew everyone would not be pleased with their decision - they told Nick Trott that from the outset. Pout if you want to.
>8^)
ER
Remember that one, when they brought out a Enzo,CGT,KSEGG,Maserati and Zonda F to the N ring..one driver..same day..
Hopefully that day will come with the 918,p1,lafer,agera, and Huayra..
Would be very interesting..
Last edited by La Artist; Nov 14, 2013 at 06:01 AM.
Nov 14, 2013 | 10:46 AM
#163
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 872
My god your logic is so flawed.
You act like we should thank them for letting us know the specs of their little secret.
What do they think they are the skunk works of ferrari who make bespoke one off cars for the likes of sultan of brunei and clapton?
Where no one cares or knows about the cars, but they get their money from their customer.
Why did they even release it with a whole shebang..if they want to be coy about it.
This is mclaren, mclaren who is initially a Formula 1 team, in the business of performance sports, this is mclaren automotive which would have been SHIT worth if it wasent for a certain car called F1, which goes down as a legend in history due to the fact that it KILLED the competition in performance tests, yet they shun performance tests today.
Those tests and measurements of their product that made them what they are, and made people ride their dick so hard that they defend this decision.
So thank you mclaren for givin us some little info..?
F no..they should thank us for showed interest.
Cause without the interest of the general public, those cars are worth nothing. As those who can afford it buy it cause the rest of us lusts for it.
If no one cares, they don't either.
Cause what is hypercar ownership if not a dick extension ultimately?
No one on gods green earth can use more than 3-500hp to its full potential on roads, let alone the race track due to lack of skills, or balls to play around with 1 million euro.
So yes it is in their very best interest to produce something that captures the awe of the public.
And there is nothing awesomme in pussying out of a Ring time..
Mclaren won't issue a time along the lines of 6:##, most likely cause it was a 7:## time
PS
And your logic that its lighter and has more downforce than the 918 so it is by default faster, yeah.. what can i say..i rest my case.
You act like we should thank them for letting us know the specs of their little secret.
What do they think they are the skunk works of ferrari who make bespoke one off cars for the likes of sultan of brunei and clapton?
Where no one cares or knows about the cars, but they get their money from their customer.
Why did they even release it with a whole shebang..if they want to be coy about it.
This is mclaren, mclaren who is initially a Formula 1 team, in the business of performance sports, this is mclaren automotive which would have been SHIT worth if it wasent for a certain car called F1, which goes down as a legend in history due to the fact that it KILLED the competition in performance tests, yet they shun performance tests today.
Those tests and measurements of their product that made them what they are, and made people ride their dick so hard that they defend this decision.
So thank you mclaren for givin us some little info..?
F no..they should thank us for showed interest.
Cause without the interest of the general public, those cars are worth nothing. As those who can afford it buy it cause the rest of us lusts for it.
If no one cares, they don't either.
Cause what is hypercar ownership if not a dick extension ultimately?
No one on gods green earth can use more than 3-500hp to its full potential on roads, let alone the race track due to lack of skills, or balls to play around with 1 million euro.
So yes it is in their very best interest to produce something that captures the awe of the public.
And there is nothing awesomme in pussying out of a Ring time..
Mclaren won't issue a time along the lines of 6:##, most likely cause it was a 7:## time
PS
And your logic that its lighter and has more downforce than the 918 so it is by default faster, yeah.. what can i say..i rest my case.
Ron opened his bigmouth, now it's time to reveal the ring time!
They are a F1 team, they know it's all about the numbers!
Nov 14, 2013 | 01:41 PM
#164
F yeah!!! tit got me a silver bar..
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,618
Its bound to happen when certain companys pussy out.. coug mclaren cough..
Probably Ferrari to..
People want to know..
Probably Ferrari to..
People want to know..
Nov 14, 2013 | 05:25 PM
#165
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 45
So what leads you to the conclusion I am wrong? Everyone can tell this, but can you back it up mate?
Just to say, I got my information from the #1 Source, so from which source you got your informations? The reason why I'm asking is, because there were many wrong informations spread about the 918 in the past regarding to bad translations for example the "fly lap" thing which was all wrong in the english and US media.
I got it from "Sport Auto", they were live at the Ring whilst Porsche set the record and they were months before at the ring with porsche to another few tests.
So I give you a few facts that are 100% right...
1. Porsche Project manager Frank Steffen Walliser didn't know if they will beat the 7min. Even if they driven hundreds of test, they didn't know it, so they were a bit sceptical .
2. porsche booked 4 exclusive Slots(1h per slot) within 2 days. tuesday/wednesday morning+afternoon
3. First driver was Timo Kluck. He set a few laps , all between 7'06 - 7'09.
4. Walter Röhrl was the second driver, he drove a few laps and his best time was 7'04.
5. 3rd driver was Marc Lieb. Until Liebs arrival, the other two guys drove many laps and all of them were better than the ones before, but they still didn't beat the 7min. So porsche begun to sweat a lil bit.
6. Mar Liebs first lap was 6'59min Wednesday morning. After him Timo Kluck set 7'01min. The car which Kluck drove was faster than Liebs one, so they switched the cars and Marc lieb set 6'57min.
So tell me now, which one of my informations are wrong?
Just to say, I got my information from the #1 Source, so from which source you got your informations? The reason why I'm asking is, because there were many wrong informations spread about the 918 in the past regarding to bad translations for example the "fly lap" thing which was all wrong in the english and US media.
I got it from "Sport Auto", they were live at the Ring whilst Porsche set the record and they were months before at the ring with porsche to another few tests.
So I give you a few facts that are 100% right...
1. Porsche Project manager Frank Steffen Walliser didn't know if they will beat the 7min. Even if they driven hundreds of test, they didn't know it, so they were a bit sceptical .
2. porsche booked 4 exclusive Slots(1h per slot) within 2 days. tuesday/wednesday morning+afternoon
3. First driver was Timo Kluck. He set a few laps , all between 7'06 - 7'09.
4. Walter Röhrl was the second driver, he drove a few laps and his best time was 7'04.
5. 3rd driver was Marc Lieb. Until Liebs arrival, the other two guys drove many laps and all of them were better than the ones before, but they still didn't beat the 7min. So porsche begun to sweat a lil bit.
6. Mar Liebs first lap was 6'59min Wednesday morning. After him Timo Kluck set 7'01min. The car which Kluck drove was faster than Liebs one, so they switched the cars and Marc lieb set 6'57min.
So tell me now, which one of my informations are wrong?
Last edited by Cartel...893; Nov 14, 2013 at 05:26 PM.
Nov 14, 2013 | 06:54 PM
#166
McLaren Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,578
From: California, USA
And with all of that said - maybe someone can help me now by explaining why so much focus is given to these times?
Seems pretty clear that if an average of the lap times Porsche produced during those testing periods with the 918 was presented, the car is not generally capable of a sub-7:00 time. Good on Lieb to find that one second per mile though to improve on the 7:09.
>8^)
ER
Seems pretty clear that if an average of the lap times Porsche produced during those testing periods with the 918 was presented, the car is not generally capable of a sub-7:00 time. Good on Lieb to find that one second per mile though to improve on the 7:09.
>8^)
ER
Last edited by Peloton25; Nov 14, 2013 at 06:57 PM.
Nov 14, 2013 | 08:06 PM
#170
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 413
Lieb and kluck got below 7 ( I'm not sure about rohrl) . Lieb very early on , Walter did not stay long and did not do many laps . Active aero was not operational . I don't want to get into an argument with you but With respect you got your information from a magazine , mine comes from one of the drivers .
And I quote
" The record, which was previously held for four years, was broken during the first test drive attempt in the morning of September 4. All three drivers - former European Rally Champion Walter Röhrl, Porsche test driver Timo Kluck and Porsche factory driver Marc Lieb - were quicker than the existing record with each lap driving two different 918 Spyder, and posted several lap times of less than seven minutes. Ultimately, it was Marc Lieb who posted the absolute best time of 6:57 minutes, driving at an average speed of 111.5 mph (179.5 km/h), as measured by Wige Solutions. Marcus Schurig, editor-in-chief of the sports car magazine "Sport Auto,” was on hand as an independent observer of the record-breaking runs. The two sports cars, which both deliver an output of 887 hp (652 kW), were equipped with the optional "Weissach package" to increase driving dynamics and the standard Michelin tires developed specifically for the 918 Spyder."
In fact according to cars Ben Pullman :
Porsche had two 918 Spyders at the Nürburgring for record attempt, and former rally champion Walter Röhrl, Porsche test driver Timo Kluck and Porsche factory driver Marc Lieb on hand to set the times. Apparently all three drivers posted sub-7min laps, but ultimately it was Lieb who set the record 6:57 time at an average speed of 112mph. ‘We promised a great deal with the 918 Spyder, namely to redefine driving pleasure, efficiency and performance,’ said Porsche R&D boss Wolfgang Hatz. ‘We have kept our word.’
Peloton your posts are a little bit cringe enducing now , I think you are a great ambassador for mclaren but you need to step back and take a look at the big picture mate .
On to p1 ; Not releasing a time is fine do that ( it's commendable in some ways and what I told them to do months ago lol ) but don't go claiming to beat a or b without proof , that's just low character bs . Talk is cheap , either don't talk or back it up ; simple .
And I quote
" The record, which was previously held for four years, was broken during the first test drive attempt in the morning of September 4. All three drivers - former European Rally Champion Walter Röhrl, Porsche test driver Timo Kluck and Porsche factory driver Marc Lieb - were quicker than the existing record with each lap driving two different 918 Spyder, and posted several lap times of less than seven minutes. Ultimately, it was Marc Lieb who posted the absolute best time of 6:57 minutes, driving at an average speed of 111.5 mph (179.5 km/h), as measured by Wige Solutions. Marcus Schurig, editor-in-chief of the sports car magazine "Sport Auto,” was on hand as an independent observer of the record-breaking runs. The two sports cars, which both deliver an output of 887 hp (652 kW), were equipped with the optional "Weissach package" to increase driving dynamics and the standard Michelin tires developed specifically for the 918 Spyder."
In fact according to cars Ben Pullman :
Porsche had two 918 Spyders at the Nürburgring for record attempt, and former rally champion Walter Röhrl, Porsche test driver Timo Kluck and Porsche factory driver Marc Lieb on hand to set the times. Apparently all three drivers posted sub-7min laps, but ultimately it was Lieb who set the record 6:57 time at an average speed of 112mph. ‘We promised a great deal with the 918 Spyder, namely to redefine driving pleasure, efficiency and performance,’ said Porsche R&D boss Wolfgang Hatz. ‘We have kept our word.’
Peloton your posts are a little bit cringe enducing now , I think you are a great ambassador for mclaren but you need to step back and take a look at the big picture mate .
On to p1 ; Not releasing a time is fine do that ( it's commendable in some ways and what I told them to do months ago lol ) but don't go claiming to beat a or b without proof , that's just low character bs . Talk is cheap , either don't talk or back it up ; simple .
Last edited by wtdoom; Nov 14, 2013 at 08:16 PM.