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For the love of Pete, slushie ONLY for the F10 M5!!!?

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  #41  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by IIVVX
im holding stuka personally responsible if this turns out to be false
I'll hunt him down. However, I think he will be a worthy adversary.

I just don't know how this could be true, but I really hope its not. Not to say that a sales person knows any real info (come at me Stoppie ), but my dad's sales manager with whom he was promised an allocation was promising a 6MT version. In an email as of yesterday The NL stated, "if the M5 is an auto box, then I might as well get a Cayenne Turbo". If that is thecase, I guess both The JC and The NL will be saying goodbye to BMW.
 

Last edited by "The JC"; 02-16-2011 at 07:15 PM.
  #42  
Old 02-16-2011, 11:27 AM
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why would bmw offer a 6-speed for the 550 and not the M? The drivetrains are too similar for them not to be able to do it, of course with clutch and tranny beefed up.
 
  #43  
Old 02-16-2011, 03:13 PM
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How many large performance luxury sedans do you see at your local tracks? Most will probably throw their new F10 M5 in D and call it a day. It wouldn't surprise me at this point if BMW decided to choose the ZF 8-Speed auto box. It's a remarkable gearbox - lightweight and efficient. It's also worth noting the ZF 6-Speed in the X5/6 M is a heavy duty automatic with relativly fast gear shift times and can handle up to 1000 Nm of torque. If the M5 achieves it's target performance figures and beats the compeitition while also being more fuel efficient, then people shouldn't complain. Times are changing and we need to accept it.

Also consider the weight of muscled up DCTs that can handle high amount of torque. If the M5 V8 twin turbo has around 530 lb-ft of torque (720 Nm), the tranmission needs to support it and also be very reliable over a long period of use.

Getrag 7DCI600 (E9X M3 M-DCT) can handle 600 Nm of torque (440 lb-ft and 9000 RPM.)

ZF 8-Speeed Auto (new 5-Series, X5/6, 7 Series) can handle 700 Nm of torque (515 lb-ft). Another configuration can handle up to 1000 Nm (737 lb-ft)

Getrag 7DCL750 (Ferrari California DCT) capable of extreme revs —9,000-plus rpm 750 Nm (550 lb-ft)

ZF 7-speed dual-clutch transmission (Panamera PDK) max torque is 750 Nm (550 lb-ft)

Again all just speculation, and we'll need to wait for the official call from BMW M.

YouTube - ZF 8-Speed Automatic Transmission




A good counter point from martinbo on German Car Forum

The so-called slushbox is a far cry from what it used to be. Nowadays it looks as if ZF is making huge waves with its superb torque convertor autos. I like torque convertor autos I much prefer them in vehicles that have to deal with a broader range of daily use and varying conditions. It was exactly for this reason that I was pleased with the fitment of a more robust, reliable, tolerant and smoother 8-speed auto in the Cayenne rather than an iffy, launch mode drawcard DCT box. The problem with DCT boxes as described in this thread is that they're dependant on software logic to second-guess the driver's intentions and pre-select a gear accordingly. The better the software logic, the quicker reacting the transmission. Porsche seems to have gotten their DCTs better calibrated than say, BMW.

A key issue with a torque convertor transmission in the performance saloon segment is that they don't offer a true launch control mode like can be had with a DCT. It's these launch control programs that are putting down the on-paper bragging rights to amazing 0-100 km/h acceleration times. It's these on-paper times that consumer buy on, unfortunately. Personally, I could care less for launch control. It's a novelty and one that should be used as seldomly as possible, in my opinion, in the interests of mechanical sympathy.

Ultimately it's all about application or, shall we say, fit-for-purpose. A planetary gear, torque convertor transmission does marginally isolate the driver from the drivetrain compared with the immediacy and connected-in feeling of a constant mesh gearbox - be it manual, sequential or dual clutch. So in an M3 or, to be absolutely extreme, a 458 Italia, a DCT is a far more appropriate option. But in a two-ton family saloon that happens to be mega fast? I can see no reason why anyone buying an F10 M5 wouldn't forego launch control for the smoother, broader range of talents of a modern torque convertor auto.
 
  #44  
Old 02-16-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mtechnik
These are all internet rumors and hype. We'll probably start to hear more information directly from BMW as we approach the Shanghai Auto Show (Auto Shanghai April 21-28).

BMW has been testing the M5 with DCT for a long time. The shifter in the spy pic is the same one found in a new M3 with DCT.

I spoke to Dr. Segler in Detroit. The M5 will not disappoint. He said it will be two cars in one.
Based upon what?...

Size and weight?
 
  #45  
Old 02-16-2011, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HarveyMushman
Based upon what?...

Size and weight?
I believe he was alluding to multiple engine map and suspension settings. A) An M5 with a personality that is as comfortable and luxurious as a 5 or 7-Series. B) Another that is a sharp handling speed monster. He said something like it will be a good value. You're getting two cars for your money. Of course he wasn't able to go into any specifics. Most of the BMW folks were tight lipped as they should be before a huge model launch.
 
  #46  
Old 02-16-2011, 05:01 PM
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FWIW, I saw plenty of E39 M5's on the tracks back during my pre baby scud days.

Granted, the drivers were always messing with the brakes because of the POS single open caliper factory design. But, they do fine.
 
  #47  
Old 02-17-2011, 10:18 AM
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Post BMWBLOG Analysis: 2012 BMW M5 Transmission Choices

Hugo from BMWBLOG sheds some insight on new M5 transmission discussion. He's a great writer and very knowledgeable.



[Image Source: M5Board]

Well what’s all this brouhaha over the next M5′s transmission choices. A little logic may help in understanding what the possibilities will be. Let’s start with what we know and what we’re willing to bet the farm on.

1. The engine in the next M5 is the S63B44 capable of producing 530 lb-ft of torque (approximately 717 Nm).

2. BMW will work with their current vendor pool to source the transmission.

3. BMW is conservative and the torque handling capabilities of the transmission will exceed the flywheel torque of the engine by a healthy margin.

We’re more than sure that the S63B44 will be the engine in the next M5. It’s received great critical acclaim in the X5M and X6M models. It also produces a ton of torque from fairly low RPMs through fairly high RPMs. More like a torque plateau than a torque peak.

BMW currently works with ZF and Getrag to supply gearboxes. Both can supply manuals, automatics and dual-clutch transmissions. But the subset of their transmissions that can provide the torque handling BMW would prefer is fairly small.

So, currently the X5 and X6 Ms use the ZF 6HP32 which can handle 1000 Nm of torque. That’ll give us what BMW considers to be the minimum torque handling capacity they’re willing to live with. And yes, the 6HP32 would plug right into the new M5.

ZF’s six speed in the 135i, 335is, and the M3 can handle peek torque of around 600 Nm. So the manual is out. Does anybody make a manual that can handle the ‘awesome’ torque of a BMW turbo engine? Well sure, that and more actually – Tremec makes a really great 6 speed manual and has introduced an enhanced torque handling capacity box called the Tremec T56 Magnum. It’s one stout gearbox. Tremecs are used in ‘vettes and while they can feel balky at slow speeds and light loads they come alive under power. Good gearboxes, but as far as we know BMW doesn’t use Tremec as a supplier. You could also go a little nuts and get a 5 speed Jerico gearbox, but that’s too NASCAR for any German car company.

But there are alternatives. Getrag makes a 7DCL750 dual-clutch that handles 750 Nm. Scratch that one off the list. ZF makes the 7 DCT 50 which can handle a peek of 1000 Nm. Oh, keep that one one the list. ZF also makes the 8HP which we believe can handle a peek of 1000 Nm.

But that’s an automatic right? Well it can be. But the torque converter can be swapped for a automated clutch. OK – so an 8 speed DCT! Not so fast, we don’t know if the automated clutch assembly for the 8HP changes the torque handling capacity. But, in a bet the farm move (I know longer own the farm), I suspect it’ll be an 8HP that ends up in the M5.

Why?

Because of what the two additional overdrive ratios do for EfficientDynamics.

References

GETRAG Powershift® 7DCL750 TRANSMISSION GETRAG Corporate Group - 7DCL750 TRANSMISSION
ZF 8HP ZF Friedrichshafen AG | 8-speed-automatic transmission

ZF 6HP32 ZF Friedrichshafen AG | Product Overview | Cars Multi-ratio automatic transmissions

ZF 7DC50 http://www.zf.com/zfXmlServlet sessionAttribute=xmlRoot&languageISOCode=EN&result Url=/corporate/en/products/product_overview/ProductContentPage.jsp&serviceUrl=http://appsprod01.zf.com/zf.productDataBase/service//applicationLayerSelect&applicationGroupID=&divisio nShortcut=&applicationID=12288&businessUnitShortcu t=&productFormID=12162&productGroupID=12147&produc tTypeID=316999&productTechnicID=12141

Tremec T56 TTC: TREMEC Transmissions

Jerico Jerico Performance
[Source: BMWBLOG]
 
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