Bodybuilding style "dirty bulk"
Apr 10, 2012 | 11:55 AM
#21
Neg Rep Zen Master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,573
From: Up Yours!
And why do so unless you intend to compete.
Apr 10, 2012 | 06:20 PM
#23
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 293
Thinking isn't data. As an engineering type I look at the data and try to make a valid conclusion. I took skinfold measurements to start and throughout. More accurate methods are available but cost and convenience prohibitive. Regardless of true BF % the needle moving is what I'm concerned with.
Starting weight 165, starting measured BF 12%=145 LBM
Current weight 181, current measured BF 14%=155 LBM
That's 10 lbs LBM and 6 fat, so while there is obviously fat gain roughly 2/3rds is muscle.
I should also say that most of the fat is abdominal. I had visible (but not washboard) abs at the start, now you can just see the top 2 with the rest smooth and some small love handles. My abdominal skinfold measurement has gone from 18 to 24 and the rest have barely moved.
On training:
I've been doing full body workouts with 2 days/rest in between. 2 "money" exercises (generally a squat or bench variant paired with a posterior chain exercise) slow, heavy and under 8 reps. Some small support exercises and abs. Well under an hour, sometimes as little as half an hour. NO CARDIO.
I don't think it's necessary to "train like a pro". I'm not a pro BB. Don't have the genetics, not taking the gear. I think it would be counterproductive. I'm training like a natural experienced lifter, focusing on big compound lifts and resting.
On the results:
If you want to argue that this isn't a healthy long term strategy I'm with you 100%, the bloodwork and abdominal fat gain shows that clearly. But the LBM data tells it's own tale, this is an effective way to add muscle in a short period of time without excessive discipline. Can't stick your head in the sand and ignore it. Well YOU can, but I'm not really concerned with that.
The real question to ask here is would the SAME of GREATER LBM gain be possible by doing this "clean" using the same diet without the added junk. An experiment for another time.
Starting weight 165, starting measured BF 12%=145 LBM
Current weight 181, current measured BF 14%=155 LBM
That's 10 lbs LBM and 6 fat, so while there is obviously fat gain roughly 2/3rds is muscle.
I should also say that most of the fat is abdominal. I had visible (but not washboard) abs at the start, now you can just see the top 2 with the rest smooth and some small love handles. My abdominal skinfold measurement has gone from 18 to 24 and the rest have barely moved.
On training:
I've been doing full body workouts with 2 days/rest in between. 2 "money" exercises (generally a squat or bench variant paired with a posterior chain exercise) slow, heavy and under 8 reps. Some small support exercises and abs. Well under an hour, sometimes as little as half an hour. NO CARDIO.
I don't think it's necessary to "train like a pro". I'm not a pro BB. Don't have the genetics, not taking the gear. I think it would be counterproductive. I'm training like a natural experienced lifter, focusing on big compound lifts and resting.
On the results:
If you want to argue that this isn't a healthy long term strategy I'm with you 100%, the bloodwork and abdominal fat gain shows that clearly. But the LBM data tells it's own tale, this is an effective way to add muscle in a short period of time without excessive discipline. Can't stick your head in the sand and ignore it. Well YOU can, but I'm not really concerned with that.
The real question to ask here is would the SAME of GREATER LBM gain be possible by doing this "clean" using the same diet without the added junk. An experiment for another time.
What I will say is that much of your "muscle" that you think you have gained will be lost when you start cutting. When you diet, you loose not only fat, but also muscle. Additionally, when you are dieting, you don't just loose fat around your mid-section, you loose fat and muscle all over your body.
Regardless, I'm glad you are happy with your gains. Keep up the good work
.
Apr 11, 2012 | 10:59 AM
#25
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 682
From: Orlando
Wow, sorry but horrible idea my friend. You want to gain weight gain lean weight. Work with what you got. I weighed 175 and retarded looking. Im lean and mean at 147 and everyone THINKS im 175. Fat NEVER EVER looks good. Nor is it ever healthy. Those guys that are HUGE are doing one simple thing you seem to be leaving out STEROIDS!!! Do some cardio and dont blame genetics for anything. You can do anything you want to. Your diet is recipe for total disaster. 80% is diet. 80%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apr 11, 2012 | 12:08 PM
#28
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 790
From: The OC
This thread reminded me...my cousin did this once. Well not EXACTLY like this, but he was trying to gain an insane amount of mass. So he ate WHATEVER he wanted because that was the only way he managed to force that much protein in. It worked, he ended up at 195 from around 120-130, and because he was pretty heavy on the cardio, his stats were all pretty solid (I believe somewhere in his family lies a history of heart conditions). Presumably if you keep your cardiovascular health up with cardio you can avoid a lot of negative issues that come with eating TERRIBLE, but at that point it becomes an interesting balance between building muscle and...doing away with all of that bad stuff that you're taking in.
Apr 12, 2012 | 11:46 AM
#29
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,882
I have horrible genetics.. I found out it is VERY hard for me to gain clean weight by eating clean while lifting.. I did a dirty bulk (dirty meaning junky food), but I monitored macros and did it based on a reducing caloric basis.. for example, at 160lbs, I ate 3500 calories for the first 2 weeks, then went down to 3000 for one week, then 2800 on workout days and maintenance on non-workout, etc.. worked out pretty nicely for me, I was able to put on around 12lbs in 4 months.. I did a clean bulk for about the same period and gained 5lbs..
My workout was basically heavy sets and no cardio at all for the first 2 months, then I start with HIIT on off days.. I've been a member on bb.com for over 6 years now and have seen numerous dirty bulk logs followed by a cutting phase that yielded amazing results..
Edit: none of the logs I've seen contained Alcohol though
My workout was basically heavy sets and no cardio at all for the first 2 months, then I start with HIIT on off days.. I've been a member on bb.com for over 6 years now and have seen numerous dirty bulk logs followed by a cutting phase that yielded amazing results..
Edit: none of the logs I've seen contained Alcohol though
Last edited by MC321; Apr 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM.
Apr 12, 2012 | 12:48 PM
#30
Thread Starter
| Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,470
From: Bellevue WA
Breakfast: 1 cup (uncooked) oatmeal, 2 scoops EAS protein shake
Snack: 1 chicken breast, 1 cup (cooked) brown rice
Workout: Bench, Squats, core work
PWO: Supreme protein bar (I was out after the gym, normally don't do bars from the gas station)
Lunch: Tortellnis from the first post (yes the contain about 45g protein along with the simple carbs from pasta)
Snack: 2 scoops EAS protein, tablespoon natural peanut butter
Dinner: 2 chicken thighs, 1 cup brown rice
Beer time: 1 pint boddington's pub ale, one pint young's double chocolate stout.
Pre bed: 2 scoops EAS protein.
And that's a pretty "dirty" day, some days there are no bad meals, just chicken/steak and rice + shakes.