I fear the true drivers super-car is no more . Dead . R I P .

All upcoming super-cars seem to have more letters in their spec than all the doctors in harvard have after their names combined .
Theres not a manual gearbox in sight ( the Mclaren doesn't even have a slippy diff ! ) .
The cars are faster and faster yet communicate less and less .

Even Porsche seem to be losing it . Electric power steering on the 991 ?
The Carrera GT replacement a 4 wheel drive automatic hybrid ?

Can the people able to afford these cars really be so unenthusiastic as to not even want to learn how to drive a real car ? Is it a reflection of our " want it now " culture ? Must we be able to get to a cars limits almost immediately ? Is it the legal system where we can sue a knife manufacturer that hasn't stamped a warning on its blades that they can cut US as well as a banana ? What is it ?

I can see nothing on the horizon that excites me . Where's the next F40 or Carrera GT going to come from ? I want car that can reward with a life long learning experience and relationship yet rewards you with the ultimate exultation of the speed . I don't want " super-car for dummies v2.0 " . Am I the only one ?

Is the drivers super-car dead or am I missing something ?

 

This isn't just about supercars. All sports cars are going this route. Maybe it's because reviews are just a list of numbers anymore. Most people don't know to care about steering feel or clutch engagement.

From my point of view, the drivers car is a dying breed. That's exactly what I got a Lotus.

 

as we have been discussing via PM the near future looks quite bleak as far as drivers cars are concerned.

the purity of the CGT has yet to be matched by any supercar in my opinion. also, i doubt we will ever see another naturally aspirated/manual gearbox supercar again. its a sad state of affairs really, but people seem to want the easy way out these days i.e. no interaction, 2 pedals etc.

maybe in a decade or two we will see a cyclical return of the purists cars? one can only hope!

what can make you feel more alive than piloting a precise instrument at 8/10ths, 9/10ths or above?

the problem is as you stated, people with the means do not necessarily have the desire or skill level to get the most from these machines. too often they are bought for the wrong reasons (showing off) and are, imo, wasted. look at the trends of the past few years, manual gearboxes are fast disappearing, driver aids are multiplying, and tactility is lost to favor insulating the driver from the experience. the manufacturers must follow the money trail so they are offering products to cater to this new type of clientele. even porsche is not immune, look at the spec on their upcoming offerings. if we continue on this path i fear you may be right and the purists cars may be dead, that just means i won't be buying anything new hence forth.

a 964RS type car is what is sorely needed in the line up, get rid of all the unnecessary amenities, reduce weight as much as possible, stiffen up the chassis with seam welding & a cage, blueprint a solid motor, give it a strong close ratio manual gearbox and voila! simple, light, reliable, and strong.

now that would be a car that would get my attention!

 

Simba should be in here any minute

 

btw, fantastic thread mate. ive had these thoughts for a long time now, good to be able to vent them in one place. when ive talked to some so-called "enthusiasts" in the past regarding this trend they look at me as if im speaking spanish. bloody fools.

the challenge of mastering, no taming, a wild beast should pique every mans interest, how can it be held otherwise?

do you remember the girls that gave it up right away or the ones that made you work for it?

 

+2.

Glad that I got a .2RS. Now I have no desire to look at other sport cars no matter how much faster in straight line they are.

I do not expect my kids and grandkids to drive a manual car at all.

 

you're dead on.

but we can't sue knife manufacturers for lack of a warning on the blade. its dangers are "open and obvious."

 

This has definitely be alluded to on various threads, but it is good to pull everything together in one place.

I could not agree more! It seems like the modern super car has the double-edged problem of becoming insanely fast, yet at the same time removing driver involvement. Now I need to mention that this does not mean that modern super cars are worthless. Quite the contrary, they are phenomenal, they just adhere to a different style of driving. For me, the CGT may be the epitome of super car perfection. It is a combination of modern tech (CF everywhere, single lug wheels, exotic design, unique, high revving v10), and old school heritage (manual box, RWD, minimal electronics). To me this is what I want in a super(or sports) car. Every time I drive a 911 I want it to be an experience where I feel like I was a part of the process; not everyone wants that. Some like that they can jump in a PDK car and drive fast and not have to worry about being jerky in traffic. Just very different mentalities.

Where I find a problem, is with how insanely capable these cars are. If you drive a 458 or even a 430, you simply cannot push it without getting arrested. Yes it is fun, and when I ride in a 430 (never driven, so cannot comment) I love the sound and the experience. But, it would make more sense, as a driver, to have a 355. In this case, you can work deep into the revs and use more involvement, and not be going warp speed. Yes, not as fast as the former car, but a lot of fun, and what I want for a weekend jaunt.

I look forward to future car development, and I know cars like the GTO (my favorite modern car right now) are simply phenomenal. I think a throw-back to 20th century super cars can be seen with the CCX and SSC. There are a few modern iteration of the 'drivers super car' out there, but they are far between.

 

Wtdoom, awesome points, and I agree. I still feel though that with the new Cayman R, Boxster Spyder, and GT2 RS, Porsche has not at all forgotten what us enthusiasts want the most, As I've said before, we already have enough RWD mid engined V8 cars with a flappy paddle gearbox. That is why I say it is absolutley necessary that we here on TS start a petition stating that we as enthusiast (most people who will have interest in this car will be Porsche enthusiasts) demand it is a drivers car. We don't want a flappy paddle gearbox, full leather, heated seats and navigation standard on this car, we want a light weight NA F8 DRIVER'S Porsche with a manual gearbox, and an interior devoid of most comforts. Leave it all optional. I don't have the authority to start a petition thread like this, but we really need a TS member who is interested in buying Porsche's 458 rival to start a thread telling Porsche this is what we want to see. Though they are stubborn maybe they will listen to our pleas. I really don't want this car to turn out like the 458 or MP4-12 C. I don't care how fast it goes, as long as it moves your soul in the process.

 

I appreciate your fight! Moreover, I agree with you. The fact of the matter is that even if 100 TS members with the means and ideology listed signed a petition, Porsche would just laugh at it. They do millions of dollars of market research and it is all a money game. They also are the only brand, IMO, left that still adheres to the 'driver car' mentality. Look at the RS models that recently came out. You could have optioned no radio or no aircon, but 99% of buyers included these options. Demand ($$$) dictates everything a company like Porsche does.