Only 918 Porsche 918's will be built.
#41
02-22-2011 | 11:29 AM
Rolex Fanboy
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,638
From: In a dream....please don't wake me
I wish that they would limit the production to 400 cars as well but unfortunately they most likely will not. As far a "front wheel drive" I believe you were referring to "all wheel drive" and if so I can tell you from experience that if done right the "all wheel drive" can only benefit this car. My 993 Twin Turbo that I had for 10 years was an amazing car and it had all wheel drive. Compare the acceleration of the new 911 Turbo to the GT2. The 911 Turbo, although down on horsepower versus the GT2 has amazing numbers 0-60 and 0-100. The reason for this is all-wheel drive and PDK. The 918 is going to pull off amazing numbers because it will have the faster transmission, all wheel drive, extra torque (from batteries), and electronic aids that my C-GT does not. Does this mean a better driving experience? That remains to be seen, but I can guarantee that the 918 will SMOKE my C-GT around the track and most likely will set records just as the C-GT did.
I discussed this car with my wife several times at the beginning and both of us don't feel it's usable or worth the extra 300k it will cost if we get rid of my CGT for it.
I also agree the 993TT S is a fantastic car and was well ahead of the curve in 97 that's why I hope to never sell mine
Like I said I hope it's everything you say and more. Porsche needs another top car.
#42
02-22-2011 | 11:43 AM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 219
I'd be willing to bet 100 bucks that this car will crush it's competition upon it's release. It will be a big F YOU to everyone, including McLaren, at about which time we will be hearing about catastrophic failures/warranty claims of British electronics (anyone remember Lucas, the Prince of Darkness?) and technocrap in the MP4 like every other British car ever made before it. One needs to remember that the Macca F1 did not rely on nearly as much electronics and it had a proven BMW motor architecture, and as crappy as BMW engines are, it's still light years ahead of anything from England.
The 918 will be substantially faster than any production Porsche before it, you can bet on it. Almost 90% of CGT owners I know are ready to pounce on their spots.
The 918 will be substantially faster than any production Porsche before it, you can bet on it. Almost 90% of CGT owners I know are ready to pounce on their spots.
Do you honestly think someone as anally retentive as Ron Dennis would allow a car to leave the factory with dodgy electronics?
I'll be the first to admit the British car industry is/was shoddy and build quality from our cars isn't exactly a strong point but McLaren stick out like a sore thumb in this respect, anything they make will probably be as close to perfect as possible in every aspect of it's engineering.
Here's something I remember about the F1 when it was reviewed.
"One last observation concerns construction and detailing. All three cars' chassis are basically composed of molded carbon fiber, but I've snooped around in their nooks and crannies and noted occasional lapses from perfection in the Ferrari and Bugatti's lay-up work. I don't mean blatant sloppiness, just evidence, here and there, that human beings had built the Italian cars. By contrast, the McLaren appears constructed on another planet; everything, and I mean everything, is utterly perfect. I defy you to find a blemish with a magnifying glass. Amazing." - Road & Track comparison of the F1, F50 and EB110 from 1997.
I would imagine the MP4-12C would be no less impressive.
#44
02-22-2011 | 12:10 PM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 236
From: Indy
So is this assuming Porsche won't sell all 918? They only built 83% of the CGT's they wanted to.
At $600k thats barely over $550 million in sales or 4200 gt3's. I'll assume closer to $750k sale price when equipped well.
I just don't see that market. The GT2RS is faster. hmmmm
At $600k thats barely over $550 million in sales or 4200 gt3's. I'll assume closer to $750k sale price when equipped well.
I just don't see that market. The GT2RS is faster. hmmmm
they could barely sell them here, even with new ones sitting on the floor below MSRP, which led to the 06s only being sold in Europe because of the made up "air bad compliance" issue
918 units??? bahahha, theyll sell half that at 700k
#45
02-22-2011 | 12:10 PM
Beautiful car for sure, and I am a hardcore Porsche fan, but honestly, there is something about the CGT that leaves me speechless every time i see one for over 7yrs now! I just don't see that in the 918
Don't get me wrong, the car will be super-impressive, just not my favorite Porsche as I would want it to be
My opinion doesn't count tho, until I see one in person, and I'm pretty sure it WILL shock me
-AJ
Don't get me wrong, the car will be super-impressive, just not my favorite Porsche as I would want it to be
My opinion doesn't count tho, until I see one in person, and I'm pretty sure it WILL shock me
-AJ
#47
02-22-2011 | 07:10 PM
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 59
From: Malibu, CA
I'm sure your Queen appreciates your blind loyalty to the British empire like every British journalist, car magazine, car show, etc.
The fact of the matter is that Ron Dennis and McLaren have very limited experience in building road cars without significant outside help, so only time will tell to see how they do on their own. I think that you have too much faith in Dennis, especially without the help of Gordon Murray, who was the real genius behind the outfit. The engines are built by Ricardo, who builds mostly low volume specialized products. It should also be noted that by automotive standards, 800 million pounds of start up capital to form a road car company with 3 models is a drop in the bucket or a rounding error compared to their larger competitors like VW Group. The prototype test mules of the MP4-12C have only put on about 60,000 miles each, hardly an endurance record by German standards.
Even the Macca F1 prototypes were only driven around 50,000 miles to prove reliability.
Any road going Porsche including a Carrera GT or 959 can do 2-3 times that mileage without a hiccup. They test their engines for hundreds of thousands of miles, not 50-60K. I personally do not know of any F1's that have gone even 50K miles, do you know of any? And if so, what were the service costs up to that point?
The MP4 will be a different kind of proposition from the F1, it is meant to be a daily driver and this will expose all kinds of flaws in build quality, technology, etc. We can argue about this all day long, but only time will tell.
Unfortunately for people like you who think so highly of Ron Dennis (I personally don't think much of him), the British track record isn't so great with long term reliability. By the way, Dennis hasn't won a constructor's championship in F1 since 1998!
In the example that you used, it compared the F1 to the F50 and EB110, neither of which were the standards of build quality, even in their time.
I'm not saying that the MP4 is not a cool car, I'm just saying that a) I wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty b) it's no F1 and c) you can rest assured that the 918 is going to be better in almost every single way to the MP4.
Cheers.
The fact of the matter is that Ron Dennis and McLaren have very limited experience in building road cars without significant outside help, so only time will tell to see how they do on their own. I think that you have too much faith in Dennis, especially without the help of Gordon Murray, who was the real genius behind the outfit. The engines are built by Ricardo, who builds mostly low volume specialized products. It should also be noted that by automotive standards, 800 million pounds of start up capital to form a road car company with 3 models is a drop in the bucket or a rounding error compared to their larger competitors like VW Group. The prototype test mules of the MP4-12C have only put on about 60,000 miles each, hardly an endurance record by German standards.
Even the Macca F1 prototypes were only driven around 50,000 miles to prove reliability.
Any road going Porsche including a Carrera GT or 959 can do 2-3 times that mileage without a hiccup. They test their engines for hundreds of thousands of miles, not 50-60K. I personally do not know of any F1's that have gone even 50K miles, do you know of any? And if so, what were the service costs up to that point?
The MP4 will be a different kind of proposition from the F1, it is meant to be a daily driver and this will expose all kinds of flaws in build quality, technology, etc. We can argue about this all day long, but only time will tell.
Unfortunately for people like you who think so highly of Ron Dennis (I personally don't think much of him), the British track record isn't so great with long term reliability. By the way, Dennis hasn't won a constructor's championship in F1 since 1998!
In the example that you used, it compared the F1 to the F50 and EB110, neither of which were the standards of build quality, even in their time.
I'm not saying that the MP4 is not a cool car, I'm just saying that a) I wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty b) it's no F1 and c) you can rest assured that the 918 is going to be better in almost every single way to the MP4.
Cheers.
I've not seen such a high percentage on shite in one post in a long time.
Do you honestly think someone as anally retentive as Ron Dennis would allow a car to leave the factory with dodgy electronics?
I'll be the first to admit the British car industry is/was shoddy and build quality from our cars isn't exactly a strong point but McLaren stick out like a sore thumb in this respect, anything they make will probably be as close to perfect as possible in every aspect of it's engineering.
Here's something I remember about the F1 when it was reviewed.
"One last observation concerns construction and detailing. All three cars' chassis are basically composed of molded carbon fiber, but I've snooped around in their nooks and crannies and noted occasional lapses from perfection in the Ferrari and Bugatti's lay-up work. I don't mean blatant sloppiness, just evidence, here and there, that human beings had built the Italian cars. By contrast, the McLaren appears constructed on another planet; everything, and I mean everything, is utterly perfect. I defy you to find a blemish with a magnifying glass. Amazing." - Road & Track comparison of the F1, F50 and EB110 from 1997.
I would imagine the MP4-12C would be no less impressive.
Do you honestly think someone as anally retentive as Ron Dennis would allow a car to leave the factory with dodgy electronics?
I'll be the first to admit the British car industry is/was shoddy and build quality from our cars isn't exactly a strong point but McLaren stick out like a sore thumb in this respect, anything they make will probably be as close to perfect as possible in every aspect of it's engineering.
Here's something I remember about the F1 when it was reviewed.
"One last observation concerns construction and detailing. All three cars' chassis are basically composed of molded carbon fiber, but I've snooped around in their nooks and crannies and noted occasional lapses from perfection in the Ferrari and Bugatti's lay-up work. I don't mean blatant sloppiness, just evidence, here and there, that human beings had built the Italian cars. By contrast, the McLaren appears constructed on another planet; everything, and I mean everything, is utterly perfect. I defy you to find a blemish with a magnifying glass. Amazing." - Road & Track comparison of the F1, F50 and EB110 from 1997.
I would imagine the MP4-12C would be no less impressive.
#48
02-23-2011 | 11:45 AM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 236
From: Indy
I'm sure your Queen appreciates your blind loyalty to the British empire like every British journalist, car magazine, car show, etc.
The fact of the matter is that Ron Dennis and McLaren have very limited experience in building road cars without significant outside help, so only time will tell to see how they do on their own. I think that you have too much faith in Dennis, especially without the help of Gordon Murray, who was the real genius behind the outfit. The engines are built by Ricardo, who builds mostly low volume specialized products. It should also be noted that by automotive standards, 800 million pounds of start up capital to form a road car company with 3 models is a drop in the bucket or a rounding error compared to their larger competitors like VW Group. The prototype test mules of the MP4-12C have only put on about 60,000 miles each, hardly an endurance record by German standards.
Even the Macca F1 prototypes were only driven around 50,000 miles to prove reliability.
Any road going Porsche including a Carrera GT or 959 can do 2-3 times that mileage without a hiccup. They test their engines for hundreds of thousands of miles, not 50-60K. I personally do not know of any F1's that have gone even 50K miles, do you know of any? And if so, what were the service costs up to that point?
The MP4 will be a different kind of proposition from the F1, it is meant to be a daily driver and this will expose all kinds of flaws in build quality, technology, etc. We can argue about this all day long, but only time will tell.
Unfortunately for people like you who think so highly of Ron Dennis (I personally don't think much of him), the British track record isn't so great with long term reliability. By the way, Dennis hasn't won a constructor's championship in F1 since 1998!
In the example that you used, it compared the F1 to the F50 and EB110, neither of which were the standards of build quality, even in their time.
I'm not saying that the MP4 is not a cool car, I'm just saying that a) I wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty b) it's no F1 and c) you can rest assured that the 918 is going to be better in almost every single way to the MP4.
Cheers.
The fact of the matter is that Ron Dennis and McLaren have very limited experience in building road cars without significant outside help, so only time will tell to see how they do on their own. I think that you have too much faith in Dennis, especially without the help of Gordon Murray, who was the real genius behind the outfit. The engines are built by Ricardo, who builds mostly low volume specialized products. It should also be noted that by automotive standards, 800 million pounds of start up capital to form a road car company with 3 models is a drop in the bucket or a rounding error compared to their larger competitors like VW Group. The prototype test mules of the MP4-12C have only put on about 60,000 miles each, hardly an endurance record by German standards.
Even the Macca F1 prototypes were only driven around 50,000 miles to prove reliability.
Any road going Porsche including a Carrera GT or 959 can do 2-3 times that mileage without a hiccup. They test their engines for hundreds of thousands of miles, not 50-60K. I personally do not know of any F1's that have gone even 50K miles, do you know of any? And if so, what were the service costs up to that point?
The MP4 will be a different kind of proposition from the F1, it is meant to be a daily driver and this will expose all kinds of flaws in build quality, technology, etc. We can argue about this all day long, but only time will tell.
Unfortunately for people like you who think so highly of Ron Dennis (I personally don't think much of him), the British track record isn't so great with long term reliability. By the way, Dennis hasn't won a constructor's championship in F1 since 1998!
In the example that you used, it compared the F1 to the F50 and EB110, neither of which were the standards of build quality, even in their time.
I'm not saying that the MP4 is not a cool car, I'm just saying that a) I wouldn't want to own one outside of warranty b) it's no F1 and c) you can rest assured that the 918 is going to be better in almost every single way to the MP4.
Cheers.
#49
02-23-2011 | 11:57 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 31,976
From: Minnesota
The 918 will have to be Veyron fast to be better than the MP4 in terms of speed. It may have more tech, or better build quality, but for 2.5 times the cost, it should. As for reliability, it's impossible to say which will be more reliable at this point since neither car is available to the public. However, I'd be willing to bet that the average service bill on the Porsche will be more expensive than the McLaren over time.
Last edited by Alzilla; 02-23-2011 at 12:01 PM.
