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Ferrari New Engines

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Old 10-16-2013, 08:10 PM
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Ferrari New Engines

DISCLAIMER: This article is a prediction on the development direction for Ferrari engines in the upcoming model cycles; it is in no way a result of insider information or confidential information not available to the public: it is a guessestimate

2013 has brought to us two new Maseratis, the new Quattroporte and the Ghibli. Both cars are powered by a new generation of engines, developed for Maserati by Fiat Group high-performance engine center of excellence, Ferrari. The engines, while different in size and power, a 3.8L V8 and a 3.0L V6 available in four (4) different power settings, have one thing in common: they are all turbocharged. The reason to go to forced induction has been dictated by the more stringent CO2 emission regulations and the desire from the customer to have more fuel efficient cars, even at these performance levels. As we know a turbo allows the designer to use a smaller size engine while keeping output at the same level as an aspirated engine of larger displacement. What is sacrificed in turbo engines is the high red line of powerful aspirated engines and, as a consequence, their distinctive sound. Many reviewers have noted in their reviews of the new Maseratis how the noise is not the same.

Many observers, magazine and online forums have rumored that a new generation of turbocharged engines is under development to go into the next generation Ferraris. They point to the commonality of engines in the old Maserati models as a sign that the new California will have a turbocharged engine.
I beg to differ.
The limited edition cars, the 288 GTO, the F40, F50, Enzo and LaFerrari, are offered-for-purchase technology showcases for the next generation of Ferrari models. The Enzo engine (F140B) later went into the 599, the FF and the F12. In the LaFerrari, Ferrari decided to use an aspirated V12 coupled to an electric motor in a hybrid power plant. This architecture has allowed Ferrari to decrease emissions, improve fuel consumption and improve performance while keeping the storied Ferrari noise. For this reason, I think that the LaFerrari architecture (high RPM aspirated engine coupled with an electric motor) will be adopted in the next generation of Ferrari models, starting with the new California.
I speculate that there could be two (2) basic architectures: a 4.0L V8/Electric Engine and a 5.0L V12/Electric engine. The electric engine will be common, with power in the 120-160 hp.
In a future California (current model introduced in 2008), the engine would be up front with a transaxle architecture of the electric motor, as per patents. The 4.0L V8 will have around 110 hp/L for a 440 hp + 120 hp from the electric engine. The combined hybrid output will be in the 550 hp.
In a future 458 (current model introduced in 2009) the architecture will mimic the LaFerrari. The 4.0L V8 will have around 130 hp/L for 520 hp + 160 hp from the electric engine. The combined hybrid output will be in the 670 hp.
TO BE CONTINUED WITH THE V12s...
 

Last edited by benkyo; 10-16-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:05 PM
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Way to long to read or give a poo. Newbs...
 
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:14 AM
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As for the V12s, it will be the same formula.
In a future FF (current model introduced in 2011), the engine and electric motor architecture would follow the California. The 5.0L V12 will have around 110 hp/L for 550 hp + 150 hp from the electric engine. The combined hybrid output will be around 690 hp.
Finally the replacement for the F12 (current model introduced in 2012) will have an architecture for the hybrid power plant similar to the FF - minus the all wheel drive. The 5.0L V12 will have around 130 hp/L for 650 hp + 160 hp from the electric engine. The combined hybrid output will be around 800 hp.

If my speculations are correct, we will have the best of both world: fuel and emission efficient engines, high level of performance, 9,000 rpm red line and the unique Ferrari engine sound.
 
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:37 AM
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Everything theres a new model coming it brings on average more 70/90hp, so the numbers you present are not right...
 
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by exRockstar
Everything theres a new model coming it brings on average more 70/90hp, so the numbers you present are not right...
I think the next models will have minor bumps in power but significant reductions in weight. Otherwise when does the horsepower war end? An F12 with over 800 hp would not be a fun machine to drive on city streets for the average driver - not everyone is a track lover. Take a look at this article from Jeremy Clarkson: Jeremy Clarkson on Ferrari F12 | Pixo Rental.
What do you think?
 
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:17 PM
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Yes I saw that episode of Top Gear and was quite surprised when Jeremy Clarkson said that the Ferrari F12 at 740hp, had too much power. Clarkson has always previously claimed that you can never have too much power. Perhaps this is a sign of aging? In any case, considering that the folks at Top Gear have already driven the Bugatti Veyron and the Koeniggsegg Agera (with Richard Hammond driving I believe), both of which have upwards of 1000 hp, I found this rather surprising. Could this possibly mean that Jeremy would prefer if Ferrari integrated the AWD transaxle from the FF into the F12 in some form, and do you think that this is a possibility considering the standard 90 hp output increase for each successive V12 Ferrari puts out?
 
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:59 PM
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I am curious to hear about the P1 and the LaFerrari test drives. I think the current power levels have reached the outer limits of RWD architectures. I have driven 300+ hp cars on a track and I can only imagine how scary it would be to have over 700 how under your right foot on urban streets in the rain... AWD makes the cars easier to drive but takes away from the fun. I think the next gen of super cars is going to be weight reduction over hp increases. What do you think?
 
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:34 AM
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I could imagine the California with a v6 turbo or even a baby 458 with a v6 turbo. But getting rid of the v12 would destroy the DNA of the front engined ferraris and the special models ie laferrari.

The Japanese manufacturers got rid turbo charged engine at the end of the 90s due to emissions laws. Now turbo charged engines are brought back due emission laws.

Plus the muffled response and sound of turbo charged engines is so uninspiring.
 
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:01 AM
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I am not sure that Ferrari will be so quick to go to a V6 Turbo for its next passenger car offering? After all, its not the first time that we've seen Turbos in F1, and Ferrari didn't offer a V6 Turbo at that time. As I recall, the only Ferrari that previously had a V6 (non-Turbo) was the 206/246 Dino range from the 60's and 70's
 
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by simsko
I could imagine the California with a v6 turbo or even a baby 458 with a v6 turbo. But getting rid of the v12 would destroy the DNA of the front engined ferraris and the special models ie laferrari.
This. Maserati is already pushing 400-plus horsepower out of a twin-turbo 3.0 liter V6; McLaren and Audi are pushing 500-600 horsepower out of twin-turbo V8s in the 4.0 liter range; AMG now makes a 2.0 liter turbo four that pounds out 355 horsepower. In another three or four years, those outputs will rise at least ten percent, if current engine trends hold up.

If we take the AMG 2.0 liter turbo four as the standard Ferrari's shooting for in terms of power-per-liter, they could build a 3.0 liter twin-turbo V6 that makes 533 horsepower. They're Ferrari, so I assume they'd like to beat that and be the best. Dial up the boost a notch, add a couple deciliters to the displacement, and we could be looking at a 458 replacement with a 3.2-3.4 liter twin-turbo V6 that easily makes 600 horsepower.

That said, I agree with simsko—the V12 models have too much heritage and tradition to ditch the fabled twelve-cylinder engine so easily. The Enzo's V12 paved the way for the next decade of Ferrari V12s; I'm betting LaFerrari's powertrain heralds what'll power the FF and F12berlinetta replacements. Which is to say, a high-revving V12 with a HY/KERS system to a) improve low-end response and b) improve fuel economy on the European cycle.

The 599's Enzo-based V12 was down about 7 percent on power versus the Enzo. If that holds, the F12berlinetta replacement will likely make a combined output of around 880 horsepower. Which seems absurd today, but hey, 730 horsepower seemed nutzo ten years ago.
 


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