Lamborghini "Cabrera LP600-4" Speculation Thread
#132
11-21-2011, 01:16 AM
Thanks,
Its the only one in the entire country that came with black scorpius wheels new from the factory. It is by far the most rare (and thereby collectible) of the Biclore's and there are only a handful in the entire country.
My sales rep suggested going with a mini-Reventon theme ... hence the black wheels with black roof was chosen. It does an amazing job of showing off the true lines of the car and makes it look far more menacing.
Its truly one-of-a-kind.
Its the only one in the entire country that came with black scorpius wheels new from the factory. It is by far the most rare (and thereby collectible) of the Biclore's and there are only a handful in the entire country.
My sales rep suggested going with a mini-Reventon theme ... hence the black wheels with black roof was chosen. It does an amazing job of showing off the true lines of the car and makes it look far more menacing.
Its truly one-of-a-kind.
Last edited by Bicolore; 11-21-2011 at 01:17 AM.
#134
11-21-2011, 03:19 AM
Cabrera Updates:
- The Cabrera will be a 2014 Model year which will arrive in calendar fall 2013
- The Cabrera name has already been registered and trademarks so its most likely confirmed at this point (unless this is done purely as a decoy by lambo as a trick, highly unlikely)
- It should retain conventional doors like the gallardo V10, they want to differentiate their V12s as much as possible so it will most likely keep the same formula of doors for V10 vs. V12
- No direct info on power levels but most likely new model will be 570-580HP for standard model and 600HP for superlegerra (as there really isn't that much more room to squeeze out of the FSI V10 as its getting pretty close to its NA limits with regards to its emissions limitations.).
- Weight: The Aventador is exactly 199 lbs less than Murcialogo, so the new cabrera should be roughly 150-199lbs lighter (which goes in line with the 80kg estimates).
- The Cabrera will be a 2014 Model year which will arrive in calendar fall 2013
- The Cabrera name has already been registered and trademarks so its most likely confirmed at this point (unless this is done purely as a decoy by lambo as a trick, highly unlikely)
- It should retain conventional doors like the gallardo V10, they want to differentiate their V12s as much as possible so it will most likely keep the same formula of doors for V10 vs. V12
- No direct info on power levels but most likely new model will be 570-580HP for standard model and 600HP for superlegerra (as there really isn't that much more room to squeeze out of the FSI V10 as its getting pretty close to its NA limits with regards to its emissions limitations.).
- Weight: The Aventador is exactly 199 lbs less than Murcialogo, so the new cabrera should be roughly 150-199lbs lighter (which goes in line with the 80kg estimates).
Cabrera as a trademark has not yet been registered and I know this for a fact since I work with trademarks and just did a thorough search.
Since you got this information wrong, I wonder what else you got wrong or possibly just made up.
It would be nice if D55L could chime in and set things straight. We know from experience he always has very accurate info
#135
11-21-2011, 10:36 AM
With that said, there appears to be a lot of discussions about the Lamborghini transmissions. They did not simply eliminate the stick-shift for marketing or sales purposes, it has absolutely nothing to do with that. They were FORCED to abandon the stick for a very important mechanical & technical reason....
The Aventador 7speed is very unique in that in order to keep the weight as light as possible, and fast-shifting as possible, the entire internals of the gearbox had to be totally changed. In order to make the shifts as fast as humanly possible, the 1st gear & 2nd gears are not placed on the same shaft like on normal transmissions. On a normal conventional transmission, the gears would have to disengage, move, then reengage again. In order to reduce the shift speed even more on a single clutch transmission, they had to move the 2nd gear (and syncro) onto a different shaft so that a separate selector fork could then engage the 2nd gear as the 1st selector fork is releasing the 1st gear. This is done SIMULTANEOUSLY in order to cut the shifting time down even further. In doing so they essentially created a transmission that's half way between a single clutch and a dual clutch transmission, thereby getting the best of both worlds (think of this as a dual core processor vs. a single core processor on computers). Two processes are done in PARALLEL vs. being done sequentially. This cuts down the process roughly in half. It still will not have the smoothness of a DCT, but it can handle significantly more power. DCT (made by parent company audi) have not been proven strong enough to handle the power these lambo's put out. HOWEVER, rumor has it the new R8 will have the DCT transmission, BUT this may only be true for the V8. The V10 may still retain a single clutch transmission)
For this very reason, you CANNOT have a conventional H-pattern manual shifter because the pattern would be completely random (i.e. 4th would be in place of 2nd gear, 6th would be where 3rd is, 2nd would be where 4th is etc etc). THIS is why they were FORCED to abandon the conventional manual transmission, they flat out did not have a choice, it is mechanically IMPOSSIBLE to retain a normal H-pattern.
The Aventador 7speed is very unique in that in order to keep the weight as light as possible, and fast-shifting as possible, the entire internals of the gearbox had to be totally changed. In order to make the shifts as fast as humanly possible, the 1st gear & 2nd gears are not placed on the same shaft like on normal transmissions. On a normal conventional transmission, the gears would have to disengage, move, then reengage again. In order to reduce the shift speed even more on a single clutch transmission, they had to move the 2nd gear (and syncro) onto a different shaft so that a separate selector fork could then engage the 2nd gear as the 1st selector fork is releasing the 1st gear. This is done SIMULTANEOUSLY in order to cut the shifting time down even further. In doing so they essentially created a transmission that's half way between a single clutch and a dual clutch transmission, thereby getting the best of both worlds (think of this as a dual core processor vs. a single core processor on computers). Two processes are done in PARALLEL vs. being done sequentially. This cuts down the process roughly in half. It still will not have the smoothness of a DCT, but it can handle significantly more power. DCT (made by parent company audi) have not been proven strong enough to handle the power these lambo's put out. HOWEVER, rumor has it the new R8 will have the DCT transmission, BUT this may only be true for the V8. The V10 may still retain a single clutch transmission)
For this very reason, you CANNOT have a conventional H-pattern manual shifter because the pattern would be completely random (i.e. 4th would be in place of 2nd gear, 6th would be where 3rd is, 2nd would be where 4th is etc etc). THIS is why they were FORCED to abandon the conventional manual transmission, they flat out did not have a choice, it is mechanically IMPOSSIBLE to retain a normal H-pattern.
If the Aventador's transmission were to be shifted manually, it could be built conventionally and thus could have an H-pattern shift.
The Aventador's transmission is designed the way it is because of the electronic shifting mechanism, and the emphasis on shift speed, just as you state. But there is absolutely no technical reason preventing Lamborghini from building a conventional manual transmission that would fit in the same space as the Aventador's existing transmission. It would be simpler and cheaper and would probably weigh less than the E-gear.
Last edited by mattjs33; 11-21-2011 at 10:48 AM.
#136
11-22-2011, 12:36 AM
Cabrera as a trademark has not yet been registered and I know this for a fact since I work with trademarks and just did a thorough search.
Since you got this information wrong, I wonder what else you got wrong or possibly just made up.
It would be nice if D55L could chime in and set things straight. We know from experience he always has very accurate info
Since you got this information wrong, I wonder what else you got wrong or possibly just made up.
It would be nice if D55L could chime in and set things straight. We know from experience he always has very accurate info
#138
11-22-2011, 12:44 AM
I understand what you are saying here (technically), but I don't follow this logic. The offering of an electronically shifted transmission does not preclude Lamborghini from offering a manual.
If the Aventador's transmission were to be shifted manually, it could be built conventionally and thus could have an H-pattern shift.
The Aventador's transmission is designed the way it is because of the electronic shifting mechanism, and the emphasis on shift speed, just as you state. But there is absolutely no technical reason preventing Lamborghini from building a conventional manual transmission that would fit in the same space as the Aventador's existing transmission. It would be simpler and cheaper and would probably weigh less than the E-gear.
If the Aventador's transmission were to be shifted manually, it could be built conventionally and thus could have an H-pattern shift.
The Aventador's transmission is designed the way it is because of the electronic shifting mechanism, and the emphasis on shift speed, just as you state. But there is absolutely no technical reason preventing Lamborghini from building a conventional manual transmission that would fit in the same space as the Aventador's existing transmission. It would be simpler and cheaper and would probably weigh less than the E-gear.
You cannot have an H-pattern shifter on the current transmissions design. Its not like a typical Gragiano gearbox where they can just add an electronic module to control the hydraulics. When 1st & 2nd are on opposite ends of the tranny on different shafts you just cannot do it.
They are not going to use two completely separate transmissions. Its actually much MORE expensive to do so. On the Gallardos, they are both the gragiano gearbox, one is just electronically controls the hydraulics. The same cannot be done on the new Aventador transmission, its just not physically possible. It actually saves them money by not trying to do two different transmissions, so its actually simpler & cheaper to go the route they did (which is exactly why they did it).
Besides, such a small % of drivers get stick shift anymore that they are going the way of the dinosaur (which I actually approve of). The Lambo transmissions in corsa mode on the track are truly astonishing, no way any human being could get remotely close to its speed on a consistent basis shift after shift (especially with a gated shifter).
Manual transmissions are fun on the street, I agree. But on the track, there is no substitute for sequential manual or dual clutch transmissions... period.
Last edited by Bicolore; 11-22-2011 at 12:46 AM.
#139
11-22-2011, 03:10 AM
No it's not registered in Italy. They have a national search database as well.
It's obvious you just make stuff up and have no idea what you're talking about.
It's obvious you just make stuff up and have no idea what you're talking about.
#140
11-22-2011, 07:15 AM
