C, together with a Porsche mechanic I've traced the components that are directly relevant to the sound symposer. They are primarily tubing and lightweight plastic. The valve weighs nothing. So unless I misunderstand you, which sound deadening parts are you referring to? and what would their weight be?

Also, your comments about that most 991's being heavier than the average 997... I just don't get it? You obviously get that from some informed source... if possible please elaborate. What you're talking of is that 991 owners add on approx 35kg's to the car. Hmmm....


FYI, this again from SAE online:

"Lightweight structure

All of the emotion-generating machinery would not convince if the 911 became obese. Therefore, it was essential not only to offset the extra kilos gained by the 991’s higher structural and equipment specification but also to trim it in net terms.

The added weight generated by a 100-mm (3.9-in) longer wheelbase, extra systems, and improved safety requirements added 58 kg (128 lb) compared to the outgoing 997. But Porsche managed not only to counter that increase but also to reduce overall curb weight by 45 kg (100 lb). The Type 991 Carrera with manual gearbox weighs 1380 kg (3042 lb). The new Carrera S weighs 1395 kg (3075 lb)—approximately 36 kg (80 lb) less overall than the previous generation vehicle.

This overall mass reduction has been achieved by a careful materials balance. Aluminum is used for the front end, middle, and rear of the vehicle, as well as in the front and rear lids, doors, center console crossmember, and in the rear-seat backrest. High-strength boron is among the variety of lightweight steel alloys employed in key safety sections including the inner roof frame and B-pillars. The cross-car beam is magnesium. The wall thickness of plastic components throughout the car is optimized for weight savings.

Joining techniques for the 991's structure include riveting, clinching, and adhesives.

The car's deployable rear spoiler sits on a diecast thinwall aluminum bracket. Steel, aluminum, and fiber-reinforced plastic comprise the spoiler, the blade of which has a thermoplastic polymer surface mounted on a rigid substructure.

In the car's drive unit, chassis and electrics saved about 10 kg (22 lb) compared with the outgoing model. In HVAC alone, using brushless motors in the cooling fans saved 1 kg (2.2 lb). A redesigned front axle with compact lightweight struts shaved another 5 kg (11 lb)."

 

^ Carrera, just so that I'm better informed I'd like your response if possible.
Thanks.

 

HI Haku,

Maybe I can help - what Carrera is probably referring too are some auto-car reviews on the 991. The Sport Auto Superstest is just one - so the fact is that the 991S that Porsche gave to the magazine Sport Auto to test it on the Nürburgring was about 30KG heavier then the 2008 997.2S PDK version! That must - and was a real blow for Porsche...other magazines are writing similar things about the weight. So the weight saving seems only to be relevant if you take a special car with no options or only PCCCB ..I dont know exactly..

Coming back to the sound symposer - yes its better than the BMW solution, probably its additional weight will be max 10Kg..but what I dont like is that its there to filter out unpleasant noises at around 5000rpm...why is that ? Cant you make an exhaust note that sounds like haeaven - like in a Ferrari or Lamborghini? Another real issue with the 991 is the engine bay - look at what Audi can do with the R8, the 458, etc..I know these are V shapes engines..but still - what has been done with the 991 is a complete disgrace..in the "mother of all sports cars" you can see no more engine anymore..

Porsche has always been a bit better than the rest - with the 991 they partially went completely into the wrong direction..this is just my personal opinion.

I hope that some of my concerns will be "rectified" with the 991 GT3...but I fear that it wont come true..

all the best,

 

^^ Agree

I definetly understand what you're saying Haku, and I really do appreciate the technical info you have. The sound deadening I'm referring to is the general sound deadening that most cars have (i.e, 20+lbs of sound deadening was removed over the base 997 on the GT2 RS). That sound deadening keeps the mainstream market happy, as well as adds weight, and then the sound symposer while I'm sure is light but not a feather, just puts the sound back in the car again. It's definetly a better effort than putting the engine sound through the speakers like BMW did for the M5, but still, it no doubt adds weight. I think a better option would be to remove the sound deadening, to still have the sound in the car, but while losing a bit weight at the same time, though it makes sense what Porsche did.

And as far as weight goes, you're totally right that a base 991 Carrera has a light weight construction and all, which makes the chassis lighter, but it has more standard equipment, and tech bulk that comes along with it that it's cancelled out. While Porsche claims the overall curb weight was reduced by 100lbs to 3042 lbs, I honestly don't believe that, as the base 997 Carrera was listed at 3045 lbs on Porsche's site before the 991 came out. I think better stated, it would be that 100lbs was lost from the chassis, but then added back in again with more standard equipment. And this is just a generalization, but once as couple options are added to the 991, the weight savings over the 991 basically disappear.

All that I'm basically saying is that yes, the chassis of the 991 is lighter than that of the 997's, but then they go ahead and add in a bunch of extra equipment, which cancels out the weight savings.

In no way is the 991 a bad car. It is the perfect 911 for the 21st century, and I think still has awesome sporting credibility, but for me, I just prefer the pre 991 cars is all.

 

Hi Carrera, hi Haku,

Yes - Carrera -what you say on the weight is probably correct. With all the criticism I have put here to Porsche on the 991 etc - one thing is still in their advantage - whether the 991 is now 20Kg lighter or not: Porsche cars - 911 and boxster are way lighter then most competitors. Examples: Aventador was tested in sport auto too: 1800KG (!), 458 roughly 1500KG, Mclaren roughly 1450KG if I remember well - what however is a fact that a 997/991 is lighter than the Mclaren Supercar MP4/12...that is very remarkable!!..in fact its more than that...its almost a miracle.

The new M5 is also close to 1900KG..so we can say that Porsche is when it comes to weight certainly better then many others...if not "light years" ahead sometimes..

PS: The aventador couldnt beat the GT2RS at the Nürburgring - neither could the Mclaren do it - if you ask me - they both lost it because of the weight..

 

Carrera and JH, your replies are truly appreciated. I didn't want to push you but I find the topic interesting.

I can understand what you're stating and can in some respects also empathise with you. I guess I'm going to have to find out for myself things about the 991 which I will like and dislike. It's going to be an interesting experience. I do know that as with previous models over time the variants will become more specific in their individual niche. I too hope that the GT versions will retain some of the 991 "rawness" and track focus.

Once again thanks for the feedback and responses. It's been a good debate.

 

hi Haku,

No worries...this is why TS exists.... we are here to help each other and to exchange info...especially - keep in mind the huge weight differences between a 997/991 and some other sports cars.

Just an example: I sometimes feel that my 997 GT3 is already too heavy..and my GT2 feels almost too much "truck like"...

Anyway, greetings from Europe to Tenessee and a beautiful old motorbike you have there

 

That's kind of you. Greetings to you too! I know what you mean about the weight... but sometimes I think it would be easier for me shed the odd kg than shave it off my car A few less beers for me before my car turns up I think! In all seriousness I agree that Porsche should capitalise on all that makes up the "Carrera experience" which most owners love. Weight and performance being a big part of it.

Alas my GT3 was sold a few months ago and my F800GS went a few days ago and will be replaced by a Triumph Bonnevile in the near future. A crash I had with a deer last year has changed my perspective on motorcycling. I still love it but need to stick to four wheels more. I have a thing for older bikes and my favourite bike remains the Royal Enfield Bullet. It's slow and loud... love it!

 

Hey it's another box to check on the options list for Porsche. What's it like $2400? That's a lot of change for acoustics for a cars exterior sound. I wonder how much profit they get off that option alone. I am sure the ROI was thought out just as hard as the engineering behind it.

 

I say stuff like that alot. Some people are worried about their car losing weight so much that they don't realize laying off the cheeseburgers is the best way to make your car go faster!

And FWIW Haku, I used to stare at the pictures of your old GT3, it looked perfect in every way. Also, hope you are recovering well from the motorcycle accident, and I hope the 991 suits you well.