Death of the 911? What's next?
Dec 22, 2010 | 11:21 AM
#31
Teamspeed's Howitzer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,273
Mark- you truly do live in a bubble, and for that- I love you. LOL
YOU my fine friend, do not account for reality of MOST buyers fiscal position. Which really, only allows them to purchase one, two or three cars to adorn their garage. And usually one of those is the family wagon.
Thus the direction of my fire is at most of us mere mortals; and not Kings such as yourself.
btw I agree with what you said.
*cough cough*
YOU my fine friend, do not account for reality of MOST buyers fiscal position. Which really, only allows them to purchase one, two or three cars to adorn their garage. And usually one of those is the family wagon.
Thus the direction of my fire is at most of us mere mortals; and not Kings such as yourself.
btw I agree with what you said.
*cough cough*
Dec 22, 2010 | 11:27 AM
#32
TEAMSPEED.COM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,544
From: Santa Cruz, CA
blah blah blah
I disagree!
I've longed for a 73RS for as long as I've wanted a Porsche. Lightweight like pictured above even more.
I've never complained about the 997's because I think they are fantastic cars but you can't compare the two and you surely can't compare the driving experience.
I would push a 73 just like a 97 but have a whole different driving experience and I would love it. The difference between the two doesn't matter. It's the edge of your seat driving whether you are doing 150 in the straight or just 120. The problem STOPPIE with today's drivers is they shouldn't be in the new 997's without actually learning how to drive a car first. 400-600hp variants of the 911 are not made for the average driver and the average driver buys a 911. I would say "flame suit on" only 1 in 50 brand new 911 drivers have the ability to drive the car to 7/10's as you mentioned above and that's what should scare people. JOE Lawyer who solved his first case driving into STOPPIE and pulling out of there with a 11' 997 Turbo is my best example. This guy will either use this car to 30% capability his entire life with 10 Bursts a month with a girl or buddy in the car on the straightest road he knows or he will put it in a ditch not understanding the car he just purchased.
I for one think most guys should be in the 200-300hp variants of the 80's and 90's so they learn the cars and don't use today's Nanny's to save their bacon. You know what Playing with a Nanny can do
I disagree!
I've longed for a 73RS for as long as I've wanted a Porsche. Lightweight like pictured above even more.
I've never complained about the 997's because I think they are fantastic cars but you can't compare the two and you surely can't compare the driving experience.
I would push a 73 just like a 97 but have a whole different driving experience and I would love it. The difference between the two doesn't matter. It's the edge of your seat driving whether you are doing 150 in the straight or just 120. The problem STOPPIE with today's drivers is they shouldn't be in the new 997's without actually learning how to drive a car first. 400-600hp variants of the 911 are not made for the average driver and the average driver buys a 911. I would say "flame suit on" only 1 in 50 brand new 911 drivers have the ability to drive the car to 7/10's as you mentioned above and that's what should scare people. JOE Lawyer who solved his first case driving into STOPPIE and pulling out of there with a 11' 997 Turbo is my best example. This guy will either use this car to 30% capability his entire life with 10 Bursts a month with a girl or buddy in the car on the straightest road he knows or he will put it in a ditch not understanding the car he just purchased.
I for one think most guys should be in the 200-300hp variants of the 80's and 90's so they learn the cars and don't use today's Nanny's to save their bacon. You know what Playing with a Nanny can do
I've had a few older 911s and a bunch of 914s and a 928 and I think they are amazing and a lot more fun than the newer models in most ways, but the new cars are better cars. The older cars are more fun because you can drive them all out and still be at a somewhat safe speed and have fun without being on a track. The new cars have such high limits that it makes them boring unless you are at a track.
Dec 22, 2010 | 11:35 AM
#33
Teamspeed's Howitzer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,273
Let's keep this in perspective. Chris Harris not only is a Journo, he's raced for Porsche and owns and has owned a lot of cars.
he speaks from the position of being completely spoiled. And not for MOST of the buyers out there who -if they're lucky- can do a FEW track days a year.
He's awesome. No doubt; but doesn't live in reality.
he speaks from the position of being completely spoiled. And not for MOST of the buyers out there who -if they're lucky- can do a FEW track days a year.
He's awesome. No doubt; but doesn't live in reality.
Last edited by STOPPIE; Dec 22, 2010 at 11:43 AM.
Dec 22, 2010 | 11:50 AM
#35
Rolex Fanboy
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,638
From: In a dream....please don't wake me
I agree, but I think we are getting off topic. The article states that "Porsche has lost it's direction". I want a 1973 more than anything, but that is a very special model and was always a very special model. We will have to wait and see if 40 years in the future guys are complaining and wishing the new 2050 models are more like the 2010 GT3 RS.
I've had a few older 911s and a bunch of 914s and a 928 and I think they are amazing and a lot more fun than the newer models in most ways, but the new cars are better cars. The older cars are more fun because you can drive them all out and still be at a somewhat safe speed and have fun without being on a track. The new cars have such high limits that it makes them boring unless you are at a track.
I've had a few older 911s and a bunch of 914s and a 928 and I think they are amazing and a lot more fun than the newer models in most ways, but the new cars are better cars. The older cars are more fun because you can drive them all out and still be at a somewhat safe speed and have fun without being on a track. The new cars have such high limits that it makes them boring unless you are at a track.
Porsche is in a quandry. They've got to continue making better but a very large population of owners are tired of newer. The cars are fast enough. When the typical guy can strap himself into a 600hp GT2RS we have endangered a lot of people. In 2050 I fear a 4000lb 1500hp bullit that only George Jetson will know how to fly at first.
They've produced a handful of "semi" lightweights like the boxster spyder but I for one think the engineers need to go the other way. Lightweight and Beautiful variants in the 2400lb range with a smooth 3.8...My mouth watered typing that.
This I can wrap myself around until then see ya Porsche I'll stick with the older chit.
Dec 22, 2010 | 02:28 PM
#36
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 31,976
From: Minnesota
I think we are entirely on topic but Porsche's major issue is they need to keep making better/faster/smoother/badass/muddafvcking cars for the MASSES. Jox keeps saying it best, when will the madness end? When they have 30 variants a year? So with this I believe they have lost "their original" direction.
Porsche is in a quandry. They've got to continue making better but a very large population of owners are tired of newer. The cars are fast enough. When the typical guy can strap himself into a 600hp GT2RS we have endangered a lot of people. In 2050 I fear a 4000lb 1500hp bullit that only George Jetson will know how to fly at first.
They've produced a handful of "semi" lightweights like the boxster spyder but I for one think the engineers need to go the other way. Lightweight and Beautiful variants in the 2400lb range with a smooth 3.8...My mouth watered typing that.
This I can wrap myself around until then see ya Porsche I'll stick with the older chit.
Porsche is in a quandry. They've got to continue making better but a very large population of owners are tired of newer. The cars are fast enough. When the typical guy can strap himself into a 600hp GT2RS we have endangered a lot of people. In 2050 I fear a 4000lb 1500hp bullit that only George Jetson will know how to fly at first.
They've produced a handful of "semi" lightweights like the boxster spyder but I for one think the engineers need to go the other way. Lightweight and Beautiful variants in the 2400lb range with a smooth 3.8...My mouth watered typing that.
This I can wrap myself around until then see ya Porsche I'll stick with the older chit.
Porsche took a step in the right direction with the new Cayenne (you have no idea how much I hate saying that) but now it's time to get back to the 911 model and work on reducing the weight, and enhancing the driving experience to make the car's limits more accessible to those those who want to use the car as it was intended.
Dec 22, 2010 | 05:01 PM
#37
Thread Starter
| Watch this space.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,211
I think my takeaway from this whole thread (I never really committed to an opinion one way or the other) is that I certainly would not mind if Porsche made a nice, de-contented, sporty demeanor, standard Carrera. It would be nice to pay $85K for that instead of $125K for a GT3. On a really "oh I wish" note, I wish Porsche would just put the RIGHT engine in the Cayman platform and quit neutering it.
Oh who am I kidding? You know I'll keep buying Porsches...
Oh who am I kidding? You know I'll keep buying Porsches...