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HR-45 Firearms Confiscation Bill - Believe it or not, here it comes.

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  #61  
Old 05-11-2009 | 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by guitom
Funny, I don't feel like a fool, and I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. The reason I want to agree to disagree is I can respect your views, can you respect mine?
No, I don't respect you or your views. Sorry.
 
  #62  
Old 05-11-2009 | 07:20 PM
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Sorry you have such a closed mind.
 
  #63  
Old 05-11-2009 | 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by guitom
"The root of it is this bro... Your statement said "large problems with guns in society"... That is NOT the problem. The problem is the lack of responsibility, and punishment placed upon those who commit crimes with a gun. Guns to not commit crimes, people do. The people should be punished, but our politically correct criminal justice system fails in that respect."

I agree with this. Part of the new bill spells out the minimum responsibilities of owning guns. It also spells out penalties for those careless enough to leave guns around where kids can get to them. As I don't see an end to bullying likely in kids futures, and with so much miserable, inattentive parenting going on, I feel this may be one of our best routes to reduce school shootings.
Glad you agree, however... We have enough laws on the books. We don't need more. Guns laws are not responses to "bullying".
 
  #64  
Old 05-11-2009 | 09:10 PM
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A few famous quotes from a few guys you may have heard of. ‘

‘The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.’’
— Patrick Henry

‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’
— Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764


‘‘[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.’’
— James Madison, Federalist, No. 46


‘‘I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.’’
‘‘To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.’’
— George Mason


‘‘The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.’’
— James Earl Jones, Actor


‘‘The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police.’’
-- Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938



"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.


An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon", 1942
 
  #65  
Old 05-12-2009 | 02:51 AM
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This is interesting stuff - and I can understand the interest in protecting what's in the constitution. Nonetheless, when I come across the "right to defend myself" and "the criminals have guns so we should too" argument I can't help but reason that a lot of criminals have guns simply because civilians carry too.

Surely the risk of escalation is evident, even to those who argue against assault rifle rules and regulation? Does the guy with the heaviest gunpower win? It just doesn't sound like a long-term plan.
 
  #66  
Old 05-12-2009 | 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mbolo
This is interesting stuff - and I can understand the interest in protecting what's in the constitution. Nonetheless, when I come across the "right to defend myself" and "the criminals have guns so we should too" argument I can't help but reason that a lot of criminals have guns simply because civilians carry too.

Surely the risk of escalation is evident, even to those who argue against assault rifle rules and regulation? Does the guy with the heaviest gunpower win? It just doesn't sound like a long-term plan.
Criminals will have guns period. They do not have them because civilians do. Gun laws do not keep firearms out of the hands of criminals. Gun laws leave good people unarmed.

Risk of escalation is certainly evident, but the reality is that a criminal wants an easy target, he is not going to go after a person who may not be an easy take down. In the US, in areas where it is known that a good portion of the population owns guns, crime is lower than in areas where gun control is the norm. Our cities that have the strictest gun control laws are also the area's that have the highest murder and crime rates.
 
  #67  
Old 05-12-2009 | 10:02 PM
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What chokeu2 said is right. Chicago and D.C top the lists if I'm not mistaken.
 
  #68  
Old 05-13-2009 | 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris from Cali
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