HR-45 Firearms Confiscation Bill - Believe it or not, here it comes.
#31
05-11-2009 | 09:11 AM
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 95
From: Madison, WI
You'll not meet too many Americans more skeptical of our government than I, so I absolutely understand that, and all politicians do need to be kept in line with the needs of the people they represent. I make the comments about Limbaugh and Fox news because there has NEVER been any evidence that Obama has an anti-gun agenda. Additionally, although I'm not a history scholar, I can safely say that at least since the beginning of the 20th century, there have been zero incidences of the American government storming into the houses of law-abiding gun owners and confiscating their weapons.
I don't think the issue of the 2nd amendment need be completely black and white. I believe its possible to allow the populace to have guns, but also have sensible legislation to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. The reason the debate is so polarized in America is because right-wing fear mongers have done a great job convincing gun owners that the Democrats, who haven't truly represented liberal interests at least since Carter, are anti-gun and want to take them all away. It's just not true. The NRA, who oppose almost all gun legislation, are also to blame.
I gather you live in England or elsewhere in Europe. Do you think sensible gun legislation is important?
I don't think the issue of the 2nd amendment need be completely black and white. I believe its possible to allow the populace to have guns, but also have sensible legislation to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. The reason the debate is so polarized in America is because right-wing fear mongers have done a great job convincing gun owners that the Democrats, who haven't truly represented liberal interests at least since Carter, are anti-gun and want to take them all away. It's just not true. The NRA, who oppose almost all gun legislation, are also to blame.
I gather you live in England or elsewhere in Europe. Do you think sensible gun legislation is important?
#33
05-11-2009 | 09:13 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,811
provide all the information necessary to the government so that they can begin to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, illegal immigrants, Mexican drug and arms runners, violent criminals, wife beaters, school children and the insane.
Republican scare tactic
Honestly, the Republicans have lied about everything else of importance since Reagan.
Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.
Unlike our last president, Mr. Obama is well educated and intelligent.
He's smart
And turn off Fox News, its a right wing propaganda network posing as a legitimate news source.
Good work.
How will providing my fingerprints and address to the government keep guns out of the hands of Mexican warlords?
Serioulsy? Terrorists and Mexican warlords can get all the guns they want from countries besides the US.
Please tell me you don't believe the oft cited "Fact" that 90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.
We here at TS lean to the right, but some of our most respected members are far left. However, those members use logic and facts to help support their arguments. They don't just type up a bunch of left wing talking points.
We love our guns here, and I think that we all just like to keep each other informed of legislation from other areas of the country so we can stay on top of things.
If the gun owners become complacent, then there may be a time when the government might feel that they have enough support to implement some of the more restrictive gun legislation.
Just because you think that Obama won't bring the AWB back doesn't mean that he wouldn't jump at the opportunity if he thought he could get away with it.
Welcome to Teamspeed.
#34
05-11-2009 | 09:19 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,811
In your opinion, what is "Sensible" gun legislation?
Would you vote yes on the AWB, and why?
Should all guns be registered? Pistols, shot-guns, and rifles? Why?
Are gun free zones a good idea? Why?
In order to buy a pistol, I had to go to the Police station for a pre-purchase permit...wait 5 days...go buy the gun....then go back to the station for a safety check. Is that enough? Or would you want more?
Would you vote yes on the AWB, and why?
Should all guns be registered? Pistols, shot-guns, and rifles? Why?
Are gun free zones a good idea? Why?
In order to buy a pistol, I had to go to the Police station for a pre-purchase permit...wait 5 days...go buy the gun....then go back to the station for a safety check. Is that enough? Or would you want more?
#35
05-11-2009 | 09:23 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,811
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_obama.html
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
In July, 2005 Obama voted against S. 397 that passed by a wide margin (65-31) and became law in October, 2005. This act prohibits "civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others."
Voted in 2005 to classify all Full Metal Jacket ammo in the following calibers as armor-piercing (since they are capable both of being fired from a handgun and of penetrating Kevlar bullet-resistant vests):
223 Remington
308 Winchester
Soviet 7.62x39
Obama has stated the government needs to permanently reinstate an "assault weapons" ban.
(Obama Calls for Permanent Assault Weapons Ban to Combat Inner-City Violence, Associated Press [July 15, 2007]
The package closes the Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card loopholes which resulted in the shooting out in Melrose Park. We're eliminating 17 specific assault weapons. There is no reason why anybody should need an assault weapon to protect themselves or their family,' Obama said. 'We're limiting handgun sales to one a month. We're calling for handgun registration.
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
In July, 2005 Obama voted against S. 397 that passed by a wide margin (65-31) and became law in October, 2005. This act prohibits "civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others."
Voted in 2005 to classify all Full Metal Jacket ammo in the following calibers as armor-piercing (since they are capable both of being fired from a handgun and of penetrating Kevlar bullet-resistant vests):
223 Remington
308 Winchester
Soviet 7.62x39
Obama has stated the government needs to permanently reinstate an "assault weapons" ban.
(Obama Calls for Permanent Assault Weapons Ban to Combat Inner-City Violence, Associated Press [July 15, 2007]
The package closes the Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card loopholes which resulted in the shooting out in Melrose Park. We're eliminating 17 specific assault weapons. There is no reason why anybody should need an assault weapon to protect themselves or their family,' Obama said. 'We're limiting handgun sales to one a month. We're calling for handgun registration.
#36
05-11-2009 | 09:27 AM
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 95
From: Madison, WI
"Please tell me you don't believe the oft cited "Fact" that 90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.
We here at TS lean to the right, but some of our most respected members are far left. However, those members use logic and facts to help support their arguments. They don't just type up a bunch of left wing talking points."
I don't know where most guns in Mexico are coming from, but I do believe certain people, as I listed, should not be able to buy guns for reasons of public safety. This isn't some regurgitated talking point, its my informed opinion. Unfortunately, we DO have a problem with gun violence in this country. Canada, whose citizens have about as many gun per capita on average as we do, doesn't have all of our violence problems.
Providing a thumb print may or may not help to track illegal gun trade, but I don't see the big deal. I had to be fingerprinted to get a taxi hack license. Having my prints on file actually got me out of jail quickly once in NYC. Amusing story, maybe I'll tell you some time, but gotta go, the wife has an ultrasound appointment.
We here at TS lean to the right, but some of our most respected members are far left. However, those members use logic and facts to help support their arguments. They don't just type up a bunch of left wing talking points."
I don't know where most guns in Mexico are coming from, but I do believe certain people, as I listed, should not be able to buy guns for reasons of public safety. This isn't some regurgitated talking point, its my informed opinion. Unfortunately, we DO have a problem with gun violence in this country. Canada, whose citizens have about as many gun per capita on average as we do, doesn't have all of our violence problems.
Providing a thumb print may or may not help to track illegal gun trade, but I don't see the big deal. I had to be fingerprinted to get a taxi hack license. Having my prints on file actually got me out of jail quickly once in NYC. Amusing story, maybe I'll tell you some time, but gotta go, the wife has an ultrasound appointment.
#37
05-11-2009 | 09:32 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 420
From: Western Mass
It may be easy to get a license in the rest of the country, but in Massachusetts it is completely at the discretion of the Chief of Police in the town you live in. They need zero reason to deny your license. The majority of Chiefs feel that citizens have no right to carry a concealed weapon, and they issue the licenses accordingly. You don't want our gun laws, and lately it looks like it is going that way.
#38
05-11-2009 | 09:35 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,811
"Please tell me you don't believe the oft cited "Fact" that 90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.
We here at TS lean to the right, but some of our most respected members are far left. However, those members use logic and facts to help support their arguments. They don't just type up a bunch of left wing talking points."
I don't know where most guns in Mexico are coming from, but I do believe certain people, as I listed, should not be able to buy guns for reasons of public safety. This isn't some regurgitated talking point, its my informed opinion. Unfortunately, we DO have a problem with gun violence in this country. Canada, whose citizens have about as many gun per capita on average as we do, doesn't have all of our violence problems.
Providing a thumb print may or may not help to track illegal gun trade, but I don't see the big deal. I had to be fingerprinted to get a taxi hack license. Having my prints on file actually got me out of jail quickly once in NYC. Amusing story, maybe I'll tell you some time, but gotta go, the wife has an ultrasound appointment.
We here at TS lean to the right, but some of our most respected members are far left. However, those members use logic and facts to help support their arguments. They don't just type up a bunch of left wing talking points."
I don't know where most guns in Mexico are coming from, but I do believe certain people, as I listed, should not be able to buy guns for reasons of public safety. This isn't some regurgitated talking point, its my informed opinion. Unfortunately, we DO have a problem with gun violence in this country. Canada, whose citizens have about as many gun per capita on average as we do, doesn't have all of our violence problems.
Providing a thumb print may or may not help to track illegal gun trade, but I don't see the big deal. I had to be fingerprinted to get a taxi hack license. Having my prints on file actually got me out of jail quickly once in NYC. Amusing story, maybe I'll tell you some time, but gotta go, the wife has an ultrasound appointment.
#39
05-11-2009 | 09:54 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,811
But I haven't seen many terrorists, Mexican drug runners or violent criminals at my gun store trying to buy guns.
Sensible legislation is fine, but too often the people in govenment don't understand what sensible means.
#40
05-11-2009 | 10:03 AM
TeH Ears
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,188
From: Atlanta
I, for one, a gun owner who loves his guns and the freedom that allows me to have them legally, will gladly line up to provide all the information necessary to the government so that they can begin to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, illegal immigrants, Mexican drug and arms runners, violent criminals, wife beaters, school children and the insane.
Unlike so many American gun owners apparently, I'm not so gullible that I buy into the Republican scare tactic of convincing gun owners that liberals want to take away their guns. Honestly, the Republicans have lied about everything else of importance since Reagan. I'm a proud East Coast liberal, as were most of our founding fathers. I learned to shoot handguns from a proud, Massachusetts liberal, and I wouldn't let anyone take my guns from me, neither would any of the people who taught me to shoot. If you think Obama wants your guns, you're probably digesting too much of the crap spewed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.
Unlike our last president, Mr. Obama is well educated and intelligent. He also has the problems brought on by the last 4 administrations to deal with, actually wants to deal with them, DOES NOT WANT TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS, and knows damn well that if he did want to and tried, he'd be at odds with a huge, well armed majority. He's smart, he'd never do it even if within his presidency he'd managed to solve global warming, our economy, the federal budget deficit, the middle East conflict AND the war against radical islam and thus found himself with nothing to do.
Rest easy gun owners, you can keep them all.
And turn off Fox News, its a right wing propaganda network posing as a legitimate news source. They themselves don't believe 90% of the lies they pollute your brains with. Neither does Rush Limbaugh, which is why he refuses to debate or even to let someone with an opposing viewpoint on his show.
Unlike so many American gun owners apparently, I'm not so gullible that I buy into the Republican scare tactic of convincing gun owners that liberals want to take away their guns. Honestly, the Republicans have lied about everything else of importance since Reagan. I'm a proud East Coast liberal, as were most of our founding fathers. I learned to shoot handguns from a proud, Massachusetts liberal, and I wouldn't let anyone take my guns from me, neither would any of the people who taught me to shoot. If you think Obama wants your guns, you're probably digesting too much of the crap spewed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.
Unlike our last president, Mr. Obama is well educated and intelligent. He also has the problems brought on by the last 4 administrations to deal with, actually wants to deal with them, DOES NOT WANT TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS, and knows damn well that if he did want to and tried, he'd be at odds with a huge, well armed majority. He's smart, he'd never do it even if within his presidency he'd managed to solve global warming, our economy, the federal budget deficit, the middle East conflict AND the war against radical islam and thus found himself with nothing to do.
Rest easy gun owners, you can keep them all.
And turn off Fox News, its a right wing propaganda network posing as a legitimate news source. They themselves don't believe 90% of the lies they pollute your brains with. Neither does Rush Limbaugh, which is why he refuses to debate or even to let someone with an opposing viewpoint on his show.
Look... I do not think that anyone is going to "come for our guns" anytime soon. But your post is so devoid of reality that I will not spend a lot of time on it. You intentionally deny that very virulent anti-gun stance of the left.
Your post will not serve you well here. You've cast aspersions and mis-characterizations without even attempting to add something rational to your post.
We enjoy arguing both sides of an issue here. We have left and right, and both sides typically go the extra step to back up there arguments. Please attempt to do that in the future.