I just got done watching 5 full length fights involving Mike Tyson.

The fights included Mike against Michael Spinks, "Bonecrusher" Smith, Trevor Berbick (which I saw live), Tony Tucker, and Buster Douglas.

I watched these fights because the first four - against Spinks, Smith, Berbick and Tucker - were the fights that Tyson won to unify the World Heavyweight title. And - of course - the Douglas fight was the one that Tyson lost at the age of 24. I usually also watch the fight against Quick Tillis - the first boxer to take Tyson the distance and a great fight as a foreshadow of what would give Tyson fits later on: a tall fighter that continuously moves. But I didn't have time tonight.

The Douglas fight hit me particularly hard. Even though I have watched it dozens of times, it never ceases to amaze me how badly Tyson was dominated in the fight. Until he knocked Douglas down at the end of the 9th, Tyson had not won a single round. Douglas was better conditioned, faster and had more heart in the fight. It still stands as one of the greatest upsets of all time. It almost makes your cry when you watch it. Douglas never backed up a single time in the fight. I think it startled Tyson from minute number one.

But Douglas was out at the end of the 9th round - the victim of a single uppercut from the mighty Tyson. If the bell had not rung, Tyson likely would have finished him. But luck was on Douglas' side and he got his legs back knocking Tyson out in the 10th round. Take a walk down memory lane . . .

YouTube - Mike Tyson vs. Buster Douglas

Tyson won the title at 19. But did he ever really fight anyone of substance? The heavy weight division hadn't had a great champion for a long time. Then Mike got knocked out in his prime - age 24 - by an overweight, slow-handed brawler in a warm-up bout for Evander Holyfield. Then at 30 years old, he got knocked out by Holyfield.

I was lucky enough to see Mike Tyson fight on five different occasions live in Las Vegas - my home town. I saw him fight the following opponents:

Alfonzo Ratliff KO 2
Trevor Berbick TKO 2 (Won WBC Heavyweight Title)
James Smith W 12 (Won WBA Heavyweight Title/Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
Pinklon Thomas TKO 6 (Retained WBA/WBC Heavyweight Titles)
Tony Tucker, Las Vegas W 12

In all of these fights Mike was dominant. Pinklon Thomas gave him a fight and Tony Tucker took him the distance. At all of these fights, Mike's mere presence was an awesome sight. But once in the ring, he seemed to look for the big punch too often and hardly ever jabbed. He lost the famous head bob too after Berbick and never really used it effectively again.

My question is, what is Mike Tyson's place in boxing history??

 

At the time he was going through some majore personal issues as I recall. His focus was definitely not on the fight.

 

That's true. But Douglas' mother had died less than a week before, so he was struggling through some personal issues too - not of his own making I might add.

Tyson definitely cavaliered the fight. He was soft, out of shape and slow. But the decline had started with the fight against Truth Williams 7 months before - even though he knocked Truth out in the first round. He didn't look sharp then.

I used to look up to Tyson like a God when I was 16-17 years old. But looking back, he really wasn't that great.

I think that Lennox Lewis was a much better fighter and champion.

What do you think about Lewis Robert?

 

I was very lucky to see those fights live. My dad was great friends with Duane Ford - a Las Vegas boxing judge and chairman of the Boxing Comission for several years. My dad was also on the Commission for a couple of years too.

Duane was the backup judge in the Hagler v. Leonard fight. He swears it was fixed. Funny story if anyone is interested in hearing it.

 

Lewis was a great champion. Not as explosive to watch as Tyson, but very entertaining.

 

Why am I up so late??

 

Since I wasn't old enough to see Ali in his prime, or see any of the "epic" era of Ali-Frazier-Foreman-Norton-etc., I can only compare Tyson to the other great heavyweights based upon archival footage vs. live of Tyson. I'd speculate that Tyson as he rose through the ranks was probably the most ferocious looking HW compared to Frazier or Sonny Liston (who was supposed to be a certified badass in his day), and only George Foreman in his prime was as feared. Ali obviously was the Greatest, but he never instilled the aura of "damn, this guy genuinely wants to knock my nose deep into my cranial area" the way that Tyson did. I remember seeing a few fights on TV of Tyson before he inevitably became a world champ, and I was struck by how singleminded he seemed to be in wanting to stalk his opponent and demolish him. Tyson then never displayed the wildness later in his career of someone less skilled who only owned a single weapon - - the big haymaker. He owned above average hand speed, the ability to throw solid combinations from more than one angle, OK usage of the jab and the aforementioned head bob that made him relatively tough to hit.

When he became champion, he definitely was fighting in an era when there was a paucity of talent in the HW ranks. So did Larry Holmes. That being said, Tyson did mow through his competition for some time. But as the easy victories mounted, he definitely began to lose that "crispness" that marked his boxing style pre-champ. He became easier to hit, his combinations weren't as precise and his haymakers became wilder and more desperate looking. Obviously, his mental demons (which were always there) and his outside of the ring lifestyle were taking its toll on his training and focus.

I watched the Douglas fight with some buddies in college, and the first thing that struck me was that Tyson had an almost vacant expression from the opening bell. I literally thought he was on some sort of drug or medication. When Douglas knocked him down, I knew that Tyson wasn't going to make the 10 count. The last punch that Douglas got in just as Tyson was about midway from being vertical to going horizontal was the finisher IMO.

But my enduring memory of Tyson was the relatively innocuous defense he had against Tony Tubbs in Japan. Tubbs had no chance of winning before even the opening bell, as he was out of shape. But the way Tyson took him out in the 2nd round was just crazy IMO. Tyson hit him with a left hook when they were squared up, and it opened an immediate deep gash over his right eye. Tubbs stumbled back, then fell down. Game over.

I sat there amazed. I'd never seen a championship fight end with a single punch like that. Tubbs wasn't caught out of position during the course of an exchange. He had his gloves up and was squared up to Tyson, with no exchange prior to put him in any sort of awkward position. Tyson just stared at him, then delivered a devastating left hook that was so fast, Tubbs never got his hands up to try and deflect it. Big gash immediately opens, blood flows heavily, Tubbs' corner puts an end to the fight. I can't remember ever seeing anything like it since.

Grading his entire body of work, Tyson is not even a Top 10 heavyweight. But during the early part of his career when he was not yet champ, and then shortly after, he was to me a Top 5 caliber or better. It's a shame that Cus D'Amato passed away early in Tyson's career. He probably would've been the only guy who could've kept Tyson away from that crook of crooks known as Don King, and we may have been able to witness an incredible career from start to finish.

 

I can't say where Mike rates in boxing history, but I can say he would be known as the most feared heavy weight of all time. I loved watching him and I still love watching his fights on espn2 and espn classic.

Lewis I believe was the most dominant heavyweight so far in our era. He has fought top notch opponents and on top of that came back to reclaim his losses.

I have never been to a Vegas fight, but it would be a dream come true to sit ringside and see one.

 

Been chewing on this one all day...

Tough to say for me really.

It depends on how you judge a champion. On pure savagery, and because he held the title, yes, he was a champion.

But IMHO he was never a worthy one. He was always scum as a human being.

 

been watching ESPN Classics too huh? I was and always will be a Tyson fan, I remember being a little kid watching the fights with my jaw dropped. I don't think there has been someone as explosive since him in the HW division and am not sure there ever will be again. I was not around for the Ali, etc era...so I will always look at Tyson as the man. Esp. considering how much shorter and the huge reach disadvantage he had against most of his opponents.


I watched a doc on Jack Johnson a few months ago....there is another example of a beast!