FIA Rejects McLaren's Appeal
#1
09-23-2008, 12:38 PM
FIA Rejects McLaren's Appeal
FIA rejects McLaren's Spa appeal
By Pablo Elizalde and Jonathan Noble Tuesday, September 23rd 2008, 14:15 GMT
The FIA has rejected McLaren's appeal against the penalty imposed on Lewis Hamilton following the Belgian Grand Prix Spa-Francorchamps.
The decision means Hamilton remains just one point ahead of Ferrari rival Felipe Massa in the drivers' world championship with four races to go.
Hamilton would have received a drive-through for benefiting from cutting the Bus Stop chicane, but was given a 25-second penalty instead because the event was already over.
The penalty dropped Hamilton from first to third.
McLaren maintained Hamilton had not gained any advantage from jumping the chicane and decided to appeal the penalty.
The FIA said, however, that drive-through penalties could not be appealed.
"Article 152 of the International Sporting Code states that drive-through penalties are 'not susceptible to appeal'," a statement from the FIA's Court of Appeal said on Tuesday.
"The competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes appealed the Steward's decision before the International Court of Appeal in a hearing in Paris on September 22nd.
"Having heard the explanations of the parties the Court has concluded that the appeal is inadmissible."
McLaren claimed in the court that a precedent to appeal Hamilton's 25-second penalty had been set at last year's Japanese Grand Prix, when Scuderia Toro Rosso were allowed to challenge a similar punishment handed down to Vitantonio Liuzzi for overtaking under yellow flags.
The FIA told McLaren, however, that there had been a mistake in Liuzzi's original penalty - and that he too should have been given a drive-through penalty. FIA race director Charlie Whiting claimed that the chief race steward at the time, Tony Scott-Andrews, had told him there had been an error.
However, McLaren produced a statement from Scott-Andrews in court countering the claims of the FIA.
In his statement, he set the record straight by stating: "I have seen the email and I'm extremely surprised by its content. In short, it is grossly inaccurate and misleading."
Although Whiting stood by his belief that Scott-Andrews had informed him he made an error, McLaren's lawyer Mark Phillips made sure that the court should be made aware of the implication.
Phillips labeled it as an 'unfortunate email' and pleaded with the judges: "to reflect when you come to consider your judgment the way in which certain members of the FIA conducted themselves. I won't say any more."
autosport.com - F1 News: FIA rejects McLaren's Spa appeal
#4
09-23-2008, 04:06 PM
You beat me to it! That's what I get for going to work this morning. 
It is great to see members posting in here! Keep it up.
I have not really studied the decision much yet. Obviously, I am very disappointed. If Massa wins the WDC by fewer than 4 points, this whole season will be a question mark - for the teams, drivers and - most importantly - the fans and sponsors. I would have accepted a reasoned opinion based on the facts. But to skirt the issue entirely through a technicality leaves everyone wondering WTF.
You have to love it when "governing bodies" decide not to decide anything. Reminds me of the U.S. Supreme Court. Hey, why not the FIA too?
Sad.
Here is the pitpass.com version of the story.
McLaren Spa Appeal Rejected
It is great to see members posting in here! Keep it up.
I have not really studied the decision much yet. Obviously, I am very disappointed. If Massa wins the WDC by fewer than 4 points, this whole season will be a question mark - for the teams, drivers and - most importantly - the fans and sponsors. I would have accepted a reasoned opinion based on the facts. But to skirt the issue entirely through a technicality leaves everyone wondering WTF.
You have to love it when "governing bodies" decide not to decide anything. Reminds me of the U.S. Supreme Court. Hey, why not the FIA too?
Sad.
Here is the pitpass.com version of the story.
McLaren Spa Appeal Rejected
Last edited by Barrister; 09-23-2008 at 04:25 PM.
#5
09-24-2008, 03:11 AM
Well I'm a Ferrari fan. All you McLaren fans please answer me this isn't the rule that if someone cuts a corner and gains a place that he should give the place back and NOT GAIN AN ADVANTAGE FROM CUTTING THE CORNER. I assume we can all agree on that so what do you call drafting a person you have just only barely let by? is that not an advantage? would Hamilton have had the same opourtunity had he not cut the corner?
#6
09-24-2008, 03:20 AM
Its quotes like these that make Hamilton such an Ass IMO:
"Answering one of Tozzi's questions, Hamilton had said: "Are you a racing driver? No.I have been a racing driver since I was eight years old and I know pretty much every single manoeuvre in the book, and that's why I'm the best at my job.""We're talking about a skilled driver under intense pressure making a split-second decision which no one, unless they are in F1, can comprehend," he added.
When Tozzi suggested that Hamilton should not "personalise" Ferrari's argument, the McLaren driver answered: "I beg to differ.""
Where does he get off calling him self the best. I'm not saying he's not talented he is exteremely good but for someone with not even two seasons under his belt to have an ego that huge is nausiating. Frankly had he been a little more down to earth he'd have a lot more fans than he does now I really hope Massa win the title not only because I'm a Ferrari fan but because I want to see Hamilton get a good kick in the teeth that will bring him down to earth. I hope to God Vettel(there are also sevral talented drivers in cars that are not competitive ie: Rosberg, Glock, Sutil....) get a competitive racing seat next year and show Hamilton he's not so special
"Answering one of Tozzi's questions, Hamilton had said: "Are you a racing driver? No.I have been a racing driver since I was eight years old and I know pretty much every single manoeuvre in the book, and that's why I'm the best at my job.""We're talking about a skilled driver under intense pressure making a split-second decision which no one, unless they are in F1, can comprehend," he added.
When Tozzi suggested that Hamilton should not "personalise" Ferrari's argument, the McLaren driver answered: "I beg to differ.""
Where does he get off calling him self the best. I'm not saying he's not talented he is exteremely good but for someone with not even two seasons under his belt to have an ego that huge is nausiating. Frankly had he been a little more down to earth he'd have a lot more fans than he does now I really hope Massa win the title not only because I'm a Ferrari fan but because I want to see Hamilton get a good kick in the teeth that will bring him down to earth. I hope to God Vettel(there are also sevral talented drivers in cars that are not competitive ie: Rosberg, Glock, Sutil....) get a competitive racing seat next year and show Hamilton he's not so special
#7
09-24-2008, 03:25 AM
I'll bite:
Lap 2 going into La Source. LH spins and Kimi goes off track to avoid a collision. Kimi comes out of the corner tucked under Lewis's tail and drafts him after Eau Rouge, completing the pass for the lead. Competitive advantage? If you ask me, no. Same goes for the penultimate lap. Fair is fair.
The post-race ruling was a joke and rejecting Mclaren's appeal shows clear bias. There are too many 'Ferrari rules' in the FIA's rule book.
Lap 2 going into La Source. LH spins and Kimi goes off track to avoid a collision. Kimi comes out of the corner tucked under Lewis's tail and drafts him after Eau Rouge, completing the pass for the lead. Competitive advantage? If you ask me, no. Same goes for the penultimate lap. Fair is fair.
The post-race ruling was a joke and rejecting Mclaren's appeal shows clear bias. There are too many 'Ferrari rules' in the FIA's rule book.
Well I'm a Ferrari fan. All you McLaren fans please answer me this isn't the rule that if someone cuts a corner and gains a place that he should give the place back and NOT GAIN AN ADVANTAGE FROM CUTTING THE CORNER. I assume we can all agree on that so what do you call drafting a person you have just only barely let by? is that not an advantage? would Hamilton have had the same opourtunity had he not cut the corner?
#8
09-24-2008, 03:30 AM
Not sure I get you here. Should a competitor in any sport or competition say "I may be second best"? Do you dislike the great Muhammad Ali as much as you do Lewis?
If Lewis were in a Ferrari, I doubt the tifosi would have their panties in a bunch the way they do now. You guys see Lewis as a long-term threat to your chances of winning championships...add to that his talent behind the wheel of a car (a silver one, no less) and the tifosi quiver in their designer Italian shoes.
If Lewis were in a Ferrari, I doubt the tifosi would have their panties in a bunch the way they do now. You guys see Lewis as a long-term threat to your chances of winning championships...add to that his talent behind the wheel of a car (a silver one, no less) and the tifosi quiver in their designer Italian shoes.
Its quotes like these that make Hamilton such an Ass IMO:
"Answering one of Tozzi's questions, Hamilton had said: "Are you a racing driver? No.I have been a racing driver since I was eight years old and I know pretty much every single manoeuvre in the book, and that's why I'm the best at my job.""We're talking about a skilled driver under intense pressure making a split-second decision which no one, unless they are in F1, can comprehend," he added.
When Tozzi suggested that Hamilton should not "personalise" Ferrari's argument, the McLaren driver answered: "I beg to differ.""
Where does he get off calling him self the best. I'm not saying he's not talented he is exteremely good but for someone with not even two seasons under his belt to have an ego that huge is nausiating. Frankly had he been a little more down to earth he'd have a lot more fans than he does now I really hope Massa win the title not only because I'm a Ferrari fan but because I want to see Hamilton get a good kick in the teeth that will bring him down to earth. I hope to God Vettel(there are also sevral talented drivers in cars that are not competitive ie: Rosberg, Glock, Sutil....) get a competitive racing seat next year and show Hamilton he's not so special
"Answering one of Tozzi's questions, Hamilton had said: "Are you a racing driver? No.I have been a racing driver since I was eight years old and I know pretty much every single manoeuvre in the book, and that's why I'm the best at my job.""We're talking about a skilled driver under intense pressure making a split-second decision which no one, unless they are in F1, can comprehend," he added.
When Tozzi suggested that Hamilton should not "personalise" Ferrari's argument, the McLaren driver answered: "I beg to differ.""
Where does he get off calling him self the best. I'm not saying he's not talented he is exteremely good but for someone with not even two seasons under his belt to have an ego that huge is nausiating. Frankly had he been a little more down to earth he'd have a lot more fans than he does now I really hope Massa win the title not only because I'm a Ferrari fan but because I want to see Hamilton get a good kick in the teeth that will bring him down to earth. I hope to God Vettel(there are also sevral talented drivers in cars that are not competitive ie: Rosberg, Glock, Sutil....) get a competitive racing seat next year and show Hamilton he's not so special
#9
09-24-2008, 04:01 AM
Come on Alex you are comparing Hamilton to Mohammed Ali isn't that pushing it what has he accomplished to be compared to the greatest fighter of all time
and regarding your point on how Raikonen gained an advantage in a similar fashion I have a very bad memory but I'll take your word for it and IMO Raikonen should have been penalised as well if he gained an advantage. Also just because Lewis was penalised this time dosn't mean the stewards are out to get him please all Mclaren fans stop your conspiracy theories.
What puts a smile on my face is had Lewis given back the position he gained and then even let Kimi get away a little he would have passed him easily. Recal with me in the third stint both Kimi and Lewis put the harder compound tire and that virtualy wiped out Kimi's 4 second lead as the Mclaren was faster on the harder tire add to that the fact that it has just rained and lewis was gaining on Kimi where it was easy to see that he would pass him, since the Mclaren seemed to be much more stable in the rain than the Ferrari.
Ohh and Alex eventhough we're suporting each other's rivals in F1 I hope that we can become friends believe it or not some of my best friends support Mclaren
..... Ohh and Great Avatar BTW I simply adore Eva Green and that 65 Black is not to bad either
#10
09-24-2008, 04:05 AM
And don't forget that Kimi passed Nakajima under a yellow flag - illegal. But what was the FIA's response when confronted with this fact?? "Oh, we would have penalized him had he finished the race, but he didn't finish so no penalty." That's BS. They could have given him up to a 10 spot grid penalty in the next race. They sure didn't hesitate to dole that out to Lewis in Canada.
The FIA has a very "convenient" memory when it comes to enforcing the "rules" against red cars.
I respect Ferrari and don't really hate Massa or Kimi. But if Massa wins this year by a slimmer margin than he undeservedly gained at Spa, he is no champion in my mind.
The FIA has a very "convenient" memory when it comes to enforcing the "rules" against red cars.
I respect Ferrari and don't really hate Massa or Kimi. But if Massa wins this year by a slimmer margin than he undeservedly gained at Spa, he is no champion in my mind.