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76K Mile RS4 Carbon Cleaning. Worst We've Seen Yet!

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Old Nov 6, 2011 | 01:39 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 81911
That's also quite pathetic to have to perform every 25k miles.
Doesn't make any sense to me. I am going to try to get a hold of a tech I worked with in the next week or two to see what they say causes it. If it's something simple such as diverting an intake/exhaust path, that'd be a relief.
 
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 02:06 PM
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^I can't believe I didn't think of this one - crank case ventilation. People seem to be using oil catch cans... So I would assume it could be a ventilation issue. Thinking out loud, my guess is venting the crank case to atmosphere would solve the issue. Wonder how you do that on the 4.2?

Seems EGR could be an issue as well. From Audizine, a post on VWAG's patent:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post4752426
A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible.
So if there is EGR, do a delete, vent the CC to atmosphere or employ a catch can.
 

Last edited by cstroked; Nov 6, 2011 at 02:10 PM.
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 02:56 PM
  #23  
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Meth injection, catch can does not work. Everything has been tested.

Its not exactly carbon from combustion, its oil film buildup thats not effectively cleaned by fuel since the engine is direct injected, not port injected. It affects airflow dramatically into the motor causing power loss. VAG motors have not used EGRs since the early 90's.
 

Last edited by Kai@EliteMotorsports; Nov 6, 2011 at 02:58 PM.
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai@EliteMotorsports
Meth injection, catch can does not work. Everything has been tested.

Its not exactly carbon from combustion, its oil film buildup thats not effectively cleaned by fuel since the engine is direct injected, not port injected. It affects airflow dramatically into the motor causing power loss. VAG motors have not used EGRs since the early 90's.
Though I could be wrong, my experience would tell me the fact it is direct injected should not be the issue - plenty of DI motors are spotless on the intake side of the head - what is allowing the oil to get onto the intake side of the head? Bad sealing at the valve and head? Crank case ventilation?
 
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 08:12 PM
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I've never seen a DFI injected Porsche engine have this issue.
 
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 09:30 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cstroked
Though I could be wrong, my experience would tell me the fact it is direct injected should not be the issue - plenty of DI motors are spotless on the intake side of the head - what is allowing the oil to get onto the intake side of the head? Bad sealing at the valve and head? Crank case ventilation?
The oil vapor in the air stream clings onto the valves and stays there because the valves are relatively hot on the heads. The RS4 already has an elaborate crankcase ventilation system equipped with a 3 stage venturi cyclone to help remove the oil particles. Obviously it doesn't separate all the oil out otherwise this wouldn't happen.



There already is a cyclonic oil separator in these engines that is a bit more advanced than a catch can and works much better. There is nothing more efficient in removing oil from the PVC system than that. But, a cyclonic separator cannot remove volitile oil components that remains in the vapor stage. Fuel dilution can drive flashpoint down in the mid 200F range in these engines, which is the operating oil temperature.



Basically fuel dilution is the cause of this issue on these motors.

Possibly preventing this is to vent crankcase pressure out to the atmosphere rather than back into intake but in that case need to cap off the source of crankcase vacuum so you don't have vacuum leak which can cause other headaches.
 
Old Nov 6, 2011 | 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai@EliteMotorsports

Basically fuel dilution is the cause of this issue on these motors.
Ok, then how do we prevent fuel blow-by?

Allow the engine to come to temp before increasing load or RPMs?

Change the oil frequently?
 
Old Nov 7, 2011 | 07:49 PM
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Kai,

By fuel dilution I'm guessing you mean oil blow-by is getting into the fuel in the combustion chamber then the crankcase vapor (composed of both oil and fuel) is gumming up the intake ports?
Originally Posted by Jacon
Ok, then how do we prevent fuel blow-by?

Allow the engine to come to temp before increasing load or RPMs?

Change the oil frequently?
I think what Kai is suggesting is to vent the crank case to the atmosphere. You'll have to plug the device that creates the vacuum for the CCV system as it is a NA engine. Changing the oil will not help blow-by as blow-by is created by oil blowing past the piston rings into the combustion chamber.

Fuel blow-by would mean fuel is getting into the oil.
 
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