With the differenece that the P1 is much much faster than the Mp4/12 what you can't say about the Veneno in comparison to the Aventador. The P1 is also not approx. 3,5 Million $ more expensive than the Mp4/12 what you can't say about the Veneno too.

So this comparison lacks really.

I would like to see a race on Spa too, would even pay for it. But you don't really think that the Huayra stands a chance regarding laptimes against the P1?

It's not that I would blame Pagani for that, the Huayra is "old" already but I'm just saying because Pagani could never ever hold up to an Aerodynamics Giant like McLaren. Pagani just don't have enough money and manpower for this. This don't mean they couldn't build a fast car, they already proved it a lot of times and the Huayra is a masterpiece as the zondas were. But when it comes to laptimes Downforce is everything and in this case Pagani just don't have the resources like a F1-Team like McLaren or Ferrari have.

The MP4/12 is one of the best handling cars in the world. So the P1 has much more Power, DRS, KERS, and (i guess) more Downforce. If you sum up all these specifications it's ovious that the P1 will be much faster than the Huayra on any track.

 

Having seen your new avatar D55L it was not hard to determine where your allegiances lay

But I have to totally disagree with your thoughts on the appearance of the P1 looking like the MP4. Of the three new supercars the P1 has shown the most original thinking from styling point of view.

The LaFerrari is very derivative pulling styling from the likes of the P4/5 and past Ferrari's. I so wanted to love it, but as a design it could have been created 10 years ago. It just has not moved the game on, the P1 has.

According to Montezemolo all 499 cars have been sold, I wish I could be surprised by this. But when you have a preferred client base that will buy any new Ferrari almost sight unseen, this indicates too me that a large number of those buyers will not be discerning buyers which I think is sad.

I know a couple of guys on the list, and great guys as they are they are not huge enthusiasts. They regard having the new Ferrari as just another accessory to their lifestyle. Like their previous Ferrari's they will drive them to be seen in the right places, bask in the attention for a while but within a short time get bored and look to move the car on. The £million the car will cost is pocket change to them, and as a result they have no emotional attachment.

From Ferrari's point of view this is great as they have a guaranteed sale. Personally I think it’s a shame that the LaFerrari of the three is least likely to see any decent road or track action, its natural habitat will be cruising the streets around Harrods in central London because of the current client base

 

I know that P1 design is very original and innovative in both style and function and I really do like it a lot. With all that said I still can't get away from the feeling that it does look a bit like a MP4-12C on steroids, especially inside, but I really have absolutely no problems with that. Also I think that P1 priced very well and really worth every single penny being asked for it.

The main factor why I put Ferrari in the first place is one heck of emotions it whips up in you and versus McLaren's sort of sterile performance it's exactly what makes me admire the mighty F.

And you seem to be spot on the Harrods - HR Owen of London is receiving the biggest single dealer LaFerrari allocation in the world

 

Cartel, lol can not believe you are saying this.

"It's not that I would blame Pagani for that, the Huayra is "old" already but I'm just saying because Pagani could never ever hold up to an Aerodynamics Giant like McLaren."

Last time I believe Motor Tren or EVO did a 1 mile race and the MP12 was suprisingly slow compared to some of the other supercars that was put up againt it. Secondly Maclaren could learn something from Pagani, their aerodynamic is second to none. Have you even read any of the article for the Zonda R or the Huarya. The MP12 or P1 don't even come close. Sure Maclaren maybe great at what they do on the F1 track but even now they falling behind. Maclaren may be a million corporation but Pagani isn't exactly counting the pennies as they probably have more orders than they can produce. so being a "small" company like Koensigg and Pagani may be a good thing.

 

I highly doubt that. Times are getting harder and harder with more and more hypercars coming to the market nearly every month. McLaren stepped back into the game with their P1, Porsche presented the 918 , Ferrari the La Ferrari - just to name a few.
Pagani is counting every single penny - every single one ! The Top Gear tire incident is the best example for that. Horracio and his team are trying everything to convince potential customers to purchase his product; inter alia with a cheated lap time. Something that is absolutely secondary for the "typical" Pagani customer. Factories like Pagani or Koenigsegg to cause attention in the media - unfortunately this time it backfires for Pagani.
People bought the Zonda because it's a piece of art, it's one of a kind, every single detail on this car is handmade.
Keep in mind the exorbitant costs to produce this car, I am sure it doesn't pay off selling 20 or 30 units. They probably start making benefit selling 50 cars and more.
And now the drastic rise in prices for their product might be another hint that times aren't easy right now.

 

Why all the snark? Everyone knows that if they had a carbon fiber tub as good as the MP4's in the 458 it just makes sense to use it for the hyper car. As far as the engine, V12s are a dying breed. They decided to stick with it for another generation at least, but if they had not they would've used the 458 engine in some way.

 

Not sure if we are wandering too far off subject with all the talk comparing this latest round of supercars, but...

With the advent of the LaFer (F70, what have you, LaFerrari will never properly roll off the tongue), the P1 and the 918, doesn't the Huayra now look somehow a little... less special? Pagani are simply too small to match the cutting edge tech of Ferrari and McLaren, even its active aero looks a little silly in comparison to what the the others are offering.

You have Koenigsegg operating out there on the lunatic fringe, pumping out huge power numbers and claimed top speeds, trying to stay just a bit out in front of the big guys. Luckily for them they operate to the beat of a different drummer. For this reason the Huayra has that spectacular interior and exquisite detailing because it needs it to carve out its own niche as a whole different flavor. Becuse it can no longer claim that upper reach of the performance stratosphere. As soon as the big guys got serious about going there, their technical might proved they could turn out pretty much whatever they want.

People buy Morgans and Astons and Spykers not because they produce the best stats, but for the unique feelings they provide their owners. Unfortunately to me with this latest generation of hypercars, the Huayra now has to compete on an emotional basis more than a performance basis. Which makes the tire incident all the more easy to understand, I guess.

Ultimately stats and lap times only matter to fanboys like us, because the number of owners of these cars who would ever make the most of their capabilities, shoot, even could make the most of their abilities, is staggeringly small.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but this is about the P1 also, really.

 

This may be true, but in all honesty they don't need to. They just need to do what they did with the Zonda, and they will continue to compete with the F, S, etc versions.

 

To a certain extent I think we have to leave Pagani out of this argument. Their product is so different to the P1 and the Ferrari, it almost warrants its own classification.

Basically this boils down to a duel between two personalities, Ron Dennis on one side and Montezemolo on the other. They don’t like each other, never have. They are bitter rivals in F1.

Ron wanted some of Ferrari's action so started the car company as he thought he could do it better. The result is the cars we see today. I firmly believe the LaFerrari's spec would not have been as good if the P1 did not exist.

I would love to know what the performance parameters of the Ferrari were before McLaren launched their car in Paris a year ago. I suspect they raised the bar when they realised they had a real rival on their hands

 

Yet another amazing car from McLaren looks outstanding both inside and out.