Originally Posted by alwin

You guys are going to listen to this guy? the same guy that thought running a 360 into a concrete wall and vandalizing his own car for no reason was worth bragging about / broadcasting onto the interwebs?

I'm sorry but his opinion is worth as much as the pile of poop that just exited my dog.

I own an MP4 & a Scud, and drove the 458 plenty of times. There is a definite visceral sensation that you will not get from the MP4. It is a brilliant piece of engineering, but if you're looking for that raw race-inspired passion you're going to be disappointed and arguably equally so with a 458 as well. That is why a lot of fcar owners, including myself, have an overwhelming soft spot for the Scuderia, Challenge Stradale, F40 etc...may not be the fastest or most efficient cars but hot damn, I guarantee an endless smile the minute you put your foot down on the pedal and fling it into a turn.

The Ferrari 458 is built exceptionally well and Ferrari has definitely improved the quality of the carbon and interior, so the only reason I can think of why his crap is falling apart is probably because he rents out his cars to strangers, and as you may understand most renters, more likely than not, treat rentals like shit duh.

I want to also add that there is a slight lag on power delivery in the MP4, which is expected because well it's a turbo. The shifting is also something that takes getting used to because it's basically a single piece (imagine a see-saw) behind the wheel...and trust me, downshifting by pushing down is full-on rahtard, and I have mis-shifted more than a handful of times at the track, esp under heavy braking so what he said about it being great is greatly uneducated and naive. The shift also has a "ready" position which it tries to anticipate your next shift which again, takes a lot of getting used to...I personally hate it when I don't feel in complete control of the car or the computers are taking over, so that sort of stuff doesn't make me smile and oh by the way, on heavy braking that stupid air brake flies up and you won't be able to see shit in your rear view...perfect opportunity for folks to overtake you =)

It is a brilliantly engineered and fast piece of machinery though, that is far less conspicuous than a Ferrari or any other comparable supercar. Reliable so far and no issue; I've only clocked 3k miles. I might also add it's already taking a huge depreciation hit at today's pricing, like ridiculous hit lol and definitely isn't holding value like the 458 or my scud or even a cs.

Originally Posted by alwin

You guys are going to listen to this guy? the same guy that thought running a 360 into a concrete wall and vandalizing his own car for no reason was worth bragging about / broadcasting onto the interwebs?

I'm sorry but his opinion is worth as much as the pile of poop that just exited my dog.

I own an MP4 & a Scud, and drove the 458 plenty of times. There is a definite visceral sensation that you will not get from the MP4. It is a brilliant piece of engineering, but if you're looking for that raw race-inspired passion you're going to be disappointed and arguably equally so with a 458 as well. That is why a lot of fcar owners, including myself, have an overwhelming soft spot for the Scuderia, Challenge Stradale, F40 etc...may not be the fastest or most efficient cars but hot damn, I guarantee an endless smile the minute you put your foot down on the pedal and fling it into a turn.

The Ferrari 458 is built exceptionally well and Ferrari has definitely improved the quality of the carbon and interior, so the only reason I can think of why his crap is falling apart is probably because he rents out his cars to strangers, and as you may understand most renters, more likely than not, treat rentals like shit duh.

I want to also add that there is a slight lag on power delivery in the MP4, which is expected because well it's a turbo. The shifting is also something that takes getting used to because it's basically a single piece (imagine a see-saw) behind the wheel...and trust me, downshifting by pushing down is full-on rahtard, and I have mis-shifted more than a handful of times at the track, esp under heavy braking so what he said about it being great is greatly uneducated and naive. The shift also has a "ready" position which it tries to anticipate your next shift which again, takes a lot of getting used to...I personally hate it when I don't feel in complete control of the car or the computers are taking over, so that sort of stuff doesn't make me smile and oh by the way, on heavy braking that stupid air brake flies up and you won't be able to see shit in your rear view...perfect opportunity for folks to overtake you =)

It is a brilliantly engineered and fast piece of machinery though, that is far less conspicuous than a Ferrari or any other comparable supercar. Reliable so far and no issue; I've only clocked 3k miles. I might also add it's already taking a huge depreciation hit at today's pricing, like ridiculous hit lol and definitely isn't holding value like the 458 or my scud or even a cs.

Originally Posted by GuOD

He definitely sounds biased in the video. I was hoping to switch into a 12C when it's time to trade my car in. I thought the pushing to downshift was optional. Could you not just use it like a normal paddles or are you saying it's an accidental push?

It'd be terrible to have the airbrake deploy in traffic

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Alwin, excellent post. I agree with many of your comments, we both have the same cars. Did you get upgrade 10 on the 12C yet? Mine was done a few weeks ago and it feels much stronger, and the shifts are closer to the 458 than before. I still prefer the shifting on my 991.

On the 12C depreciation, I think it is a case of McLaren's numbers being far lower than a 458 in production and with the reduction of Coupes and the Spiders things will settle in. I don't care, because I don't have plans on selling mine and couldn't be happier with it.

Best,
Tony

Originally Posted by alwin

I haven't brought it in yet, due shortly though and whenever I get back to tw

And yes, as Ritesh has mentioned, because of the "complexity" of the shifting I also gave up trying to do it the "new" way. The old left to downshift and right to upshift is what I've stuck with and will continue to stick with.

Interesting that Ritesh felt going auto-shift is faster than manual...my experience with it is that it shifts a touch too early into each gear, but will have to try it out again. Only gave it a whirl once.