Will the 4.0 RS hold it's value.........
#22
Josh, to be fair, NONE of the GT2 or Turbo Charged GT cars have held steady. Only the N/A powered GT series cars have.
#25
My $.02.
I don't think we can compare modern cars to older ones though for a number of reasons. EDIT: I should say, by "older" I mean pre-90 for Porsche, before they started consulting with the Japanese on how to manufacture their cars with cheaper materials and processes.
1. A lot less were built.
2. Construction processes have gotten better (anti-corrosion coatings, CAD/CAM, robotic assembly), allowing modern cars to stay together longer.
3. Flip side to point 2: Modern cars are built with planned obsolescence and they are much more "consumable". More plastic/composite components means less "rebuilding". Which brings me to my next point, originality. What makes a car more or less "original" than the other? Paint and engine-to-chassis #s seem to be a huge determining factor these days. How will we determine the originality of our current sports cars when there will be less originality just due to the nature of the components? Will be interesting to find out...
4. Desirability: Over 1500 or so '73 RSs vs. about 300 959s. First 500 RSs (thin sheetmetal, lightweight glass) sell for way more than a comparable 959. Even later ones in comparable condition relative to age will sell for around the same money. F40 vs. 959 is another good example. 1000+ F40s, but they sell for 2 to 3x as much as a 959 even though they only come in 1 color and look like they were assembled by a 3rd grader who's been sniffing glue.
How desirable is a 4.0 RS? I think we can look at how the 964RS and 993RS values are moving relative to age and use to get an idea.
I think with the 4.0 RSs we're going to see 2 groups of cars. 1 will be the collector, sub-100 mile cars that will be moved from 1 garage or show to another. These cars will hover around MSRP, dip under a little bit and then start to climb into oblivion.
Then there will be the drivers. Some that average 500 to 1000 miles per year, others more. These cars will dip below MSRP...maybe getting down to around 120 to 130 in 6 or 7 years (for high mileage cars or "stories" cars) and then slowly start to begin their climb around the 10 year mark. When will you be able to get your money back? Not counting inflation, I would guess around 20 to 25 years.
Anyway, all this value talk is making me nauseous. Drive it, race it, love it.
I don't think we can compare modern cars to older ones though for a number of reasons. EDIT: I should say, by "older" I mean pre-90 for Porsche, before they started consulting with the Japanese on how to manufacture their cars with cheaper materials and processes.
1. A lot less were built.
2. Construction processes have gotten better (anti-corrosion coatings, CAD/CAM, robotic assembly), allowing modern cars to stay together longer.
3. Flip side to point 2: Modern cars are built with planned obsolescence and they are much more "consumable". More plastic/composite components means less "rebuilding". Which brings me to my next point, originality. What makes a car more or less "original" than the other? Paint and engine-to-chassis #s seem to be a huge determining factor these days. How will we determine the originality of our current sports cars when there will be less originality just due to the nature of the components? Will be interesting to find out...
4. Desirability: Over 1500 or so '73 RSs vs. about 300 959s. First 500 RSs (thin sheetmetal, lightweight glass) sell for way more than a comparable 959. Even later ones in comparable condition relative to age will sell for around the same money. F40 vs. 959 is another good example. 1000+ F40s, but they sell for 2 to 3x as much as a 959 even though they only come in 1 color and look like they were assembled by a 3rd grader who's been sniffing glue.
How desirable is a 4.0 RS? I think we can look at how the 964RS and 993RS values are moving relative to age and use to get an idea.
I think with the 4.0 RSs we're going to see 2 groups of cars. 1 will be the collector, sub-100 mile cars that will be moved from 1 garage or show to another. These cars will hover around MSRP, dip under a little bit and then start to climb into oblivion.
Then there will be the drivers. Some that average 500 to 1000 miles per year, others more. These cars will dip below MSRP...maybe getting down to around 120 to 130 in 6 or 7 years (for high mileage cars or "stories" cars) and then slowly start to begin their climb around the 10 year mark. When will you be able to get your money back? Not counting inflation, I would guess around 20 to 25 years.
Anyway, all this value talk is making me nauseous. Drive it, race it, love it.
Last edited by ZAMIRZ; 07-25-2012 at 05:11 PM. Reason: had to qualify "older".
#26
I'm still wanting a 997 GT2. I was considering picking one up next year but may go for a 991 vert as i haven't got one at the moment. Or just go for a CGT but that means the lambo goes.
The problem with high performance N/A engines are that here in London (and probably in most major Cities) you simply can't get much out of the engine and you'll constantly be thrashing it, which gets old pretty quick. I don't remember the last time i stretched the LP in fourth gear.
#27
The problem with high performance N/A engines are that here in London (and probably in most major Cities) you simply can't get much out of the engine and you'll constantly be thrashing it, which gets old pretty quick. I don't remember the last time i stretched the LP in fourth gear.
I get what you're saying though, the powerband and torque of a turbo car would definitely be more fun for most environments.
#28
I think the 991RS will determine the 4.0's value. We all know that it will be faster but what will be gained vs what will be lost. I went through this with my Evo. I purchased an Evo 8 in 2003 but had to sell it in 06 to renovate the house. After the renovation was done, I wanted to get another but wanted to wait for the Evo X instead of purchasing an Evo XIMR. After a long wait I was dissapointed to hear the reviews that what the X MR gained in speed through DSG, it gained weight and lost the touch and visceral feel of the old Evo 9 so I ended up having to buy a used IX MR which I recently sold for the price I bought it! I now have a 3.8RS and love it. I'm not going to make the same mistake and sell it until I know for a fact the 991 RS is truly a better car and delivers what we expect from a GT car. If it isn't, 3.8 and 4.0 prices should hold or rise because there will be a whole bunch of guys like me that will be desperately looking for one.
#30
That's not entirely true - 993 GT2 is serious money.
I'm still wanting a 997 GT2. I was considering picking one up next year but may go for a 991 vert as i haven't got one at the moment. Or just go for a CGT but that means the lambo goes.
The problem with high performance N/A engines are that here in London (and probably in most major Cities) you simply can't get much out of the engine and you'll constantly be thrashing it, which gets old pretty quick. I don't remember the last time i stretched the LP in fourth gear.
I'm still wanting a 997 GT2. I was considering picking one up next year but may go for a 991 vert as i haven't got one at the moment. Or just go for a CGT but that means the lambo goes.
The problem with high performance N/A engines are that here in London (and probably in most major Cities) you simply can't get much out of the engine and you'll constantly be thrashing it, which gets old pretty quick. I don't remember the last time i stretched the LP in fourth gear.