GT2RS vs MP4-12C
Nov 16, 2011 | 09:41 AM
#31
Am I the only one around here who doesn't have a custom member title?
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,259
From: Frankfurt
The MP4-12C has been hailed as Britain’s fightback against the latest beasts from Italy, such as the Lamborghini Aventador and the Ferrari FF, but its birth has not been easy, Mr Dennis confessed to The Times.
fightback against the FF
Nov 18, 2011 | 02:23 PM
#33
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 436
Heres an article if anyones interested :
McLaren’s new £160,000 British-built supercar, born out of the Formula One team’s championship-winning technology, has been dogged by software problems since its launch — and it’s all down to new owners pressing too many knobs at the same time.
The admission has emerged in an exclusive interview with Ron Dennis, the motor racing legend who launched the McLaren Automotive roadcar manufacturer after stepping back from the day-to-day running of the F1 team two years ago.
Mr Dennis has admitted that technology issues have meant that the first generation of McLaren MP4-12C owners, having parted with a large portion of their net worth, are taking delivery without satellite navigation or in-car phone working.
The MP4-12C has been hailed as Britain’s fightback against the latest beasts from Italy, such as the Lamborghini Aventador and the Ferrari FF, but its birth has not been easy, Mr Dennis confessed to The Times.
“It’s a complex car,” the 64-year-old McLaren chief executive said. “Virtually every single problem has its root cause in software. As intense as our development work has been, some problems have manifested themselves in the hands of the customer as they learn about the car.”
Drivers have been pressing buttons in sequences the car deems “illogical”, Mr Dennis said. “The car [during development] was in the hands of our engineers, who know how to set it up electronically.
“They haven’t thrown at the car the sort of combinations that they thought would ever be thrown at it — this switch, that switch, open a window, leave the window half-open. The car is left thinking. That means it doesn’t go to sleep. That produces a current drain, which has led to all sorts of problems.”
Mr Dennis said that customers had been given an option. “It is an inconvenience, but we have asked them: ‘Would you prefer to have the car and we’ll do the upgrade later?’ The overwhelming opinion was even if the telephone and sat-nav are not connected, they’d still rather have the car.”
The company says that the fleet has gradually been debugged by software upgrades done at customers’ homes.
Mr Dennis was speaking before the opening next week of the MP4-12C’s purpose-built factory at McLaren’s F1 headquarters outside Woking in Surrey. “The overall performance of the car is sensational but we have some challenges.
“We are a new brand, a new factory with a lot of new people. The common thread is the absolute determination to be very good at what we do, to be relentless in our pursuit of quality. Any customer experiencing any pain is only experiencing a percentage of what I feel if we fail to achieve those goals.”
That is a far cry from his earlier almost bullish " we will crush Ferrari " talk
McLaren’s new £160,000 British-built supercar, born out of the Formula One team’s championship-winning technology, has been dogged by software problems since its launch — and it’s all down to new owners pressing too many knobs at the same time.
The admission has emerged in an exclusive interview with Ron Dennis, the motor racing legend who launched the McLaren Automotive roadcar manufacturer after stepping back from the day-to-day running of the F1 team two years ago.
Mr Dennis has admitted that technology issues have meant that the first generation of McLaren MP4-12C owners, having parted with a large portion of their net worth, are taking delivery without satellite navigation or in-car phone working.
The MP4-12C has been hailed as Britain’s fightback against the latest beasts from Italy, such as the Lamborghini Aventador and the Ferrari FF, but its birth has not been easy, Mr Dennis confessed to The Times.
“It’s a complex car,” the 64-year-old McLaren chief executive said. “Virtually every single problem has its root cause in software. As intense as our development work has been, some problems have manifested themselves in the hands of the customer as they learn about the car.”
Drivers have been pressing buttons in sequences the car deems “illogical”, Mr Dennis said. “The car [during development] was in the hands of our engineers, who know how to set it up electronically.
“They haven’t thrown at the car the sort of combinations that they thought would ever be thrown at it — this switch, that switch, open a window, leave the window half-open. The car is left thinking. That means it doesn’t go to sleep. That produces a current drain, which has led to all sorts of problems.”
Mr Dennis said that customers had been given an option. “It is an inconvenience, but we have asked them: ‘Would you prefer to have the car and we’ll do the upgrade later?’ The overwhelming opinion was even if the telephone and sat-nav are not connected, they’d still rather have the car.”
The company says that the fleet has gradually been debugged by software upgrades done at customers’ homes.
Mr Dennis was speaking before the opening next week of the MP4-12C’s purpose-built factory at McLaren’s F1 headquarters outside Woking in Surrey. “The overall performance of the car is sensational but we have some challenges.
“We are a new brand, a new factory with a lot of new people. The common thread is the absolute determination to be very good at what we do, to be relentless in our pursuit of quality. Any customer experiencing any pain is only experiencing a percentage of what I feel if we fail to achieve those goals.”
That is a far cry from his earlier almost bullish " we will crush Ferrari " talk
Most of the issues have now been sorted with only the sat nav needing to be updated and owners have been given a time line on that.
The performance is real, none of the owners have complained about that.
As for being a computer controlled car, have you tried driving a 458 with its electronics turned off? It’s a death trap. Also non of the Mac's have randomly burst into flames
Last edited by streetrod454; Nov 18, 2011 at 02:24 PM.
Nov 18, 2011 | 09:31 PM
#34
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 413
Now come on that is a little disingenuous at best. Yes early cars have suffered well documented software issues but you fail to mention that the company supplying most of the electronics to the car were wiped out by the tsunami that hit Japan earlier this year. That is why McLaren are behind the curve.
Most of the issues have now been sorted with only the sat nav needing to be updated and owners have been given a time line on that.
The performance is real, none of the owners have complained about that.
As for being a computer controlled car, have you tried driving a 458 with its electronics turned off? It’s a death trap. Also non of the Mac's have randomly burst into flames
Most of the issues have now been sorted with only the sat nav needing to be updated and owners have been given a time line on that.
The performance is real, none of the owners have complained about that.
As for being a computer controlled car, have you tried driving a 458 with its electronics turned off? It’s a death trap. Also non of the Mac's have randomly burst into flames
Neither was I the owner of the car that fried its ~ECU because the owner tried to start the car with the emergency key thing .
The tsunami information is a myth , if it were true there would be no parts not faulty ones . It is the sat nav system etc that still does not work , the doors dont open every time fgs .
Dont misunderstand me I wanted this car to be great ( Im not particularly a fan of Ferrari ) and had a letter of intent with them years before the car came out . But once a few of my friends drove it , I didnt even bother and put my order in the bin .
You can dance around the issues if you wish , I prefer to call it like it is : this car is not ready for release . It is a laughing stock , Ferrari must be in tears of laughter .
The performance is real , yes but still finished behind the ferrari in the majority of lap times and reviews .
A very close friend of mine talked in depth to tiff needel regarding this car . He said that you have to drive it a certain way to go fast , its way . There is no mechanical lsd the car features a very advanced brake steer that does the job of one . That sounds good in principle but ( as so often the case of fixing things that are not broken ) when you turn everything " off " and try to have some fun with the car it cuts the power just as you need it ( in a powerslide for example ) and then when you anticipate this and correct , it does it again and spits you off the circuit . That is of no interest to me whatsoever . In fact the huge highly publicised accident at the ring was probably caused by such vehicle intervention . Thats why the lap time setting was ceased and they returned several weeks later . For me a supercar is not JUST about getting from a to b in the shortest time its about the joy , the interaction , the journey itself ! Thats why I buy the cars I buy , otherwise id get a Nissan GTR tune it to 1000bhp , job done .
As for driving a 458 with all its electronics off , I have done so several times and enjoyed wonderful , controllable slides and seat of the pants excitement that nearly bought tears to my eyes . Tears of Joy not tears of frustration that I would cry in the cyborg that is the MP4-abcdefg . I dont want a Supercar for dummies , however im no luddite sir . Theres a time and a place for electronics but I am a grown man , I have reasonable driving skills and I want to be able to turn every aid off and have fun if I so wish . The MP4 cyberdine systems model - 14 does not want or like that , so I dont like it . I track everything from a Carrera GT to a 1972 911 st , none of them with stability control and Im no Walter Rohrl . You should be able to master and bully a car not have to kneel before it like Zod and do everything its way .
Above all when I buy a car for over 200 000 pounds I expect it to work and not self destruct or release the hounds because i have tha audacity to " press too many buttons " . Im not trying to be argumentative , Im just very passionate about cars and am trying to explain why I think this car is such a wasted opportunity to make something great not just something fast .
Having said all that its great that we all like different cars , the world would be a very boring place indeed if we all liked the same things
Last edited by wtdoom; Nov 18, 2011 at 09:35 PM.
Nov 19, 2011 | 04:04 AM
#37
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 603
I love that car !
No issues what so ever (don't care much for the iris anyway)
i do agree to a certain extent with what Teef said basically, you have to drive the car it's way when pushing hard,in any case it needs learning or adjusting in style of driving unlike even the most unforgiving 911 that one is familiar with and reacts predictably (ferrari too)
I don't have a problem with that and in all honesty i am won over by Mclaren and wish they would offer the upgrade rival for the rs, scuderia and such....
No issues what so ever (don't care much for the iris anyway)
i do agree to a certain extent with what Teef said basically, you have to drive the car it's way when pushing hard,in any case it needs learning or adjusting in style of driving unlike even the most unforgiving 911 that one is familiar with and reacts predictably (ferrari too)
I don't have a problem with that and in all honesty i am won over by Mclaren and wish they would offer the upgrade rival for the rs, scuderia and such....
Nov 19, 2011 | 05:38 AM
#39
Thread Starter
| Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,882
I was not referring to the result, but the fairness of the test. You can't compare the launch of the MP6000 against the 2RS. Should've been rolling.
A fair comparison from zero would be the MP9000 against the GTR MY2012. Then it'll be launch control vs launch control.
A fair comparison from zero would be the MP9000 against the GTR MY2012. Then it'll be launch control vs launch control.
