Porsche returns to Le Mans in 2014
#81
06-20-2012, 01:41 PM
new mid engined concept needed to really compete . needs bigger engine to hurt less when restricted . 911 does not have to be best performing porsche , there is room above it for the mid engined 458 competitor porsche are thinking about .
#82
06-20-2012, 01:47 PM
Just some observations and opinions:
1.The IMSA car did not lose due to the puncture it suffered. It lost because it was forced to put Anthony Pons behind the wheel (due to the fact that he has not completed the minimum required hours’ at the wheel). He is an amateur driver and was racing against Pedro Lamy (a professional). He was at times, more than 10 seconds a lap slower than Pedro. It was evident to all following the race on live timing and scoring that the IMSA car was doomed to second place. IMSA lost the race because they showed poor management of their driver line-up.
2.The 997 RSR is completely outclassed by the newer 458 and because both the Corvettes and the Astons have been given performance breaks (larger restrictors than the 997RSR), it simply is no match for them.
3.The 997RSR has in fact been given another 0.3mm restrictor break (plus some aero modifications – bigger front lip and higher rear wing) by the ACO/IMSA , but these breaks only apply to the ALMS and the 997’s that were at Le Mans did not race with these bigger restrictors.
4.We can expect an announcement from Porsche this fall concerning the 2013 RSR. The word is that it is safe to assume that the 2013 RSR will neither be based on the 997 chassis nor power plant.
5.My concern with the 991 RSR remains in the engine department. It will continue to have a relatively small (at least in comparison with the opposition) engine , and the impact of air restriction could once again leave the car at the mercy of the ACO/FiA BoP.
6.As a long time Porsche fanatic and Sportscar racing fan, It is my most sincere desire that the 960 become a reality ASAP.
1.The IMSA car did not lose due to the puncture it suffered. It lost because it was forced to put Anthony Pons behind the wheel (due to the fact that he has not completed the minimum required hours’ at the wheel). He is an amateur driver and was racing against Pedro Lamy (a professional). He was at times, more than 10 seconds a lap slower than Pedro. It was evident to all following the race on live timing and scoring that the IMSA car was doomed to second place. IMSA lost the race because they showed poor management of their driver line-up.
2.The 997 RSR is completely outclassed by the newer 458 and because both the Corvettes and the Astons have been given performance breaks (larger restrictors than the 997RSR), it simply is no match for them.
3.The 997RSR has in fact been given another 0.3mm restrictor break (plus some aero modifications – bigger front lip and higher rear wing) by the ACO/IMSA , but these breaks only apply to the ALMS and the 997’s that were at Le Mans did not race with these bigger restrictors.
4.We can expect an announcement from Porsche this fall concerning the 2013 RSR. The word is that it is safe to assume that the 2013 RSR will neither be based on the 997 chassis nor power plant.
5.My concern with the 991 RSR remains in the engine department. It will continue to have a relatively small (at least in comparison with the opposition) engine , and the impact of air restriction could once again leave the car at the mercy of the ACO/FiA BoP.
6.As a long time Porsche fanatic and Sportscar racing fan, It is my most sincere desire that the 960 become a reality ASAP.
For the rest of your points I agree. As I said, I do not see a 2013 997 RSR and the 918 ( surely a wonderdul supercar) even on RSR version is a fat ass and will I will be surprised to see it at Porsche's next war machine. Yes a new GT1/2 racing car becomes a necessity. Wheter it will be a new chassis with mid engine (960 or whatever you call it) or based on the 991 chassis like 2013 Super Cup cars remains to be seen. I would also hope they jump to a brand new concept but... they are now part of a Group.
#83
06-20-2012, 02:12 PM
Agreed, but realistically such a car would not be ready for another two years (at least) and Porsche will have to come up with something in the interim.
#84
06-20-2012, 02:18 PM
Agree for Pons vs Lamy. However as Pedro did exceed his time behind the wheel they had to change drivers. If IMSA did not get the puncture despite the lap times difference, they will have prevailed by a close gap. IMSA did recognise in their communiqué they they have done a few mistakes and that Larbre Competition did a better job on that.
For the rest of your points I agree. As I said, I do not see a 2013 997 RSR and the 918 ( surely a wonderdul supercar) even on RSR version is a fat ass and will I will be surprised to see it at Porsche's next war machine. Yes a new GT1/2 racing car becomes a necessity. Wheter it will be a new chassis with mid engine (960 or whatever you call it) or based on the 991 chassis like 2013 Super Cup cars remains to be seen. I would also hope they jump to a brand new concept but... they are now part of a Group.
For the rest of your points I agree. As I said, I do not see a 2013 997 RSR and the 918 ( surely a wonderdul supercar) even on RSR version is a fat ass and will I will be surprised to see it at Porsche's next war machine. Yes a new GT1/2 racing car becomes a necessity. Wheter it will be a new chassis with mid engine (960 or whatever you call it) or based on the 991 chassis like 2013 Super Cup cars remains to be seen. I would also hope they jump to a brand new concept but... they are now part of a Group.
The main problem is time: Porsche needs a competitive GTE product for its clients for 2013/14. It is not possible to design, build, test and homologate a road going 960 within the next two-three years, so I suspect the Interim solution will be a 991 based RSR
Last edited by Spyderman; 06-20-2012 at 02:19 PM.
#86
06-20-2012, 04:53 PM
in my opion the new 960 mid engine car will take the place of the rsr,the new gt3/rs will drop down to the carrera cup/ challange/imsa etc , league where there will always be a place for the 911, history etc. as we saw at le man porsche need a presence for the brand but regarding the pace it will be up to the new car in 2014, with street versions follwing in early 2015! until then we can keep guessing!!
#87
06-20-2012, 04:54 PM
Well - probably true..but we are in June 2012 --and 2013 is not far away..
I know from internal sources that nothing is moving..motorsport is not so important anymore and it "just costs money anyway"...and new customers in Russia and China ordering Cayennes and Panameras couldnt care less about a win or not in Le Mans.
If there would be a 2013 991 RSR planning..where would it be? It must already now being tested 24hours on racetracks.. The 960 project or whatever - has never been confirmed..and if you ask me - it will never be build.
Here is the conclusion I draw from the information I have:
2012 - continue with what they have
2013 - no 991 RSR availble - for Le Mans it means either - nothing or using 997 RSR
2014 - New car - new concept..
I remind you again that there is no confirmation of a 991 RSR..in fact there are quite a fe rumours that there will never be one. Now with Porsche part auf VW, Audi etc..these issues will be discussed with them too...and Audi wants this part of the cake here with their R8.
I fear there will never be a 991 RSR..for 2014 the new car will be developped..maybe a 960 for later too..but when will it ready..?
If Porsche screws up the 2014 one the I bet they will be as quickly gone as they came..
We will see...
I know from internal sources that nothing is moving..motorsport is not so important anymore and it "just costs money anyway"...and new customers in Russia and China ordering Cayennes and Panameras couldnt care less about a win or not in Le Mans.
If there would be a 2013 991 RSR planning..where would it be? It must already now being tested 24hours on racetracks.. The 960 project or whatever - has never been confirmed..and if you ask me - it will never be build.
Here is the conclusion I draw from the information I have:
2012 - continue with what they have
2013 - no 991 RSR availble - for Le Mans it means either - nothing or using 997 RSR
2014 - New car - new concept..
I remind you again that there is no confirmation of a 991 RSR..in fact there are quite a fe rumours that there will never be one. Now with Porsche part auf VW, Audi etc..these issues will be discussed with them too...and Audi wants this part of the cake here with their R8.
I fear there will never be a 991 RSR..for 2014 the new car will be developped..maybe a 960 for later too..but when will it ready..?
If Porsche screws up the 2014 one the I bet they will be as quickly gone as they came..
We will see...
#88
06-20-2012, 09:07 PM
Well - probably true..but we are in June 2012 --and 2013 is not far away..
I know from internal sources that nothing is moving..motorsport is not so important anymore and it "just costs money anyway"...and new customers in Russia and China ordering Cayennes and Panameras couldnt care less about a win or not in Le Mans.
If there would be a 2013 991 RSR planning..where would it be? It must already now being tested 24hours on racetracks.. The 960 project or whatever - has never been confirmed..and if you ask me - it will never be build.
Here is the conclusion I draw from the information I have:
2012 - continue with what they have
2013 - no 991 RSR availble - for Le Mans it means either - nothing or using 997 RSR
2014 - New car - new concept..
I remind you again that there is no confirmation of a 991 RSR..in fact there are quite a fe rumours that there will never be one. Now with Porsche part auf VW, Audi etc..these issues will be discussed with them too...and Audi wants this part of the cake here with their R8.
I fear there will never be a 991 RSR..for 2014 the new car will be developped..maybe a 960 for later too..but when will it ready..?
If Porsche screws up the 2014 one the I bet they will be as quickly gone as they came..
We will see...
I know from internal sources that nothing is moving..motorsport is not so important anymore and it "just costs money anyway"...and new customers in Russia and China ordering Cayennes and Panameras couldnt care less about a win or not in Le Mans.
If there would be a 2013 991 RSR planning..where would it be? It must already now being tested 24hours on racetracks.. The 960 project or whatever - has never been confirmed..and if you ask me - it will never be build.
Here is the conclusion I draw from the information I have:
2012 - continue with what they have
2013 - no 991 RSR availble - for Le Mans it means either - nothing or using 997 RSR
2014 - New car - new concept..
I remind you again that there is no confirmation of a 991 RSR..in fact there are quite a fe rumours that there will never be one. Now with Porsche part auf VW, Audi etc..these issues will be discussed with them too...and Audi wants this part of the cake here with their R8.
I fear there will never be a 991 RSR..for 2014 the new car will be developped..maybe a 960 for later too..but when will it ready..?
If Porsche screws up the 2014 one the I bet they will be as quickly gone as they came..
We will see...
As you said for 2013, we're either looking at another 997 RSR Evo, or in my opinion, a brand new 991 RSR. In the case that there was a new 991 RSR, I think they would want to run it for at least a couple of seasons before they hustle in the 960.
I really think the rumored 960 would be a great addition to the brand. They've been spending so much time on the luxury segment as of late, they don't have any current production cars to compete with the 458 Italia, MP4 12C or Aventador. We all know if Porsche set their minds to a proper rival of these cars they could blow them all away. I bet Porsche would get a lot of really good press, and a lot of customers if they offered a manual in the new 960.
Oh yeah, and a GT2 version, along with the 2014 LMP1 car would put Porsche back on the top of motorsports.
#90
06-20-2012, 09:39 PM
No matter what opinions we have, I'm disappointed in the finishes and competitiveness of Porsche and their backed race teams this year. What we used to own, is no longer. It's an embarrassment. Not really, but I'm not in a good mood about it.