Porsche plans Ferrari 458 rival
#64
03-30-2011 | 12:14 AM
Teamspeed Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 180
Do the 458 and MP4-12C perform faster in a straight line than the Turbo? No. Has ANY other Porsche ever built been faster? No. While this car will have great performance, the fact is it just won't be faster than the Turbo in a straight line unless it has AWD, which it probably won't have. I mentioned the GT3 RS to show that a car's price shouldn't be based on acceleration in a straight line. Even though you did say there are other factors to consider, you simply did not consider them at all. G forces, acceleration without launch control, the clutch, how easily the engine revs, and tourque all are vital considerations. Most importantly though is the driving experience. Based on reviews, the 911 Turbo is very fast, but is also very staid. I.E Chris Harris drove one to 60 in less than 4 seconds in the wet while drinking a bottle of coke. While the much crazier and same priced GT3 RS was acclaimed by many magazines as the greatest car ever, even though it is much slower than a lot of cars out there. That alone proves performance alone shouldn't judge the price of a car.
If this car drives anything like a GT3, but with even more soul and dedication, I bet many would agree that Porsche can price it as high as they'd like. I don't by any mean want you to feel like I'm angrily coming at you, I'm just respectfully disagreeing.
If this car drives anything like a GT3, but with even more soul and dedication, I bet many would agree that Porsche can price it as high as they'd like. I don't by any mean want you to feel like I'm angrily coming at you, I'm just respectfully disagreeing.
As previously stated, I am not debating whether the Turbo is a better car than the GT3RS or has more soul than it, because that is clearly debatable. I don't know what you are disagreeing with. I am talking about actual performance figures, and the fact of the matter is that the Turbo already runs head-to-head with the 458 and the MP4-12C in the straight-line. If Porsche wants to top those cars, they have to offer customers more with their new model, and they have to aim at creating a hyper sports car that is superior in every aspect, including performance. Porsche doesn't disappoint us enthusiasts, and so this new model would have to be faster than its competitors.
Last edited by NAPO; 03-30-2011 at 01:12 PM.
#66
03-30-2011 | 04:36 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 393
From: Venice (THE ORIGINAL ONE!)
I highly oppose this idea, although I know its going to be one hell of a car. I don't know why Porsche is deciding to kill off the legend by introducing a model above the 911 as a -non limited edition car. I can see the reason why Porsche has decided not to use the GT3 and the RS with the exception of the turbo-ed GT2 RS as a 458 rival. How much can Porsche really pump out with the flat 6, especially NA? Even if they decide to put in a flat 8, or a V8 (doubt so in a future 911) it will be too heavy and the power that comes with it, the 911s will be pulling wheelies every time off the line.
For the reason I find more fitting is that Porsche should position the 911 Turbo as the rival of said cars, use boxer 4 engines for lightening up the rear and hopefully less carbon dioxides. With Porsche trying to be green as possible I see this is not such a crazy idea this day. As crazy as that may sound with the boxer 4, I think the 911 could live on, instead of being bashed by its own marketing.
For the reason I find more fitting is that Porsche should position the 911 Turbo as the rival of said cars, use boxer 4 engines for lightening up the rear and hopefully less carbon dioxides. With Porsche trying to be green as possible I see this is not such a crazy idea this day. As crazy as that may sound with the boxer 4, I think the 911 could live on, instead of being bashed by its own marketing.
Negavite: probably they are reaching the max possible power from this plant.
Positive: 911 has been like this for 40 years and this makes it a different car from ANY other. This heritage is very important for Porsche's Fans and IMO will assure to 911s a bright future anyway.
Knowing that probably Porsche is looking for different ways in order to maintain competitiveness with other manufacturers that are not "tied-up" with a LEGEND to look-after.
Lamborghini, Maserati, Fiat, McLaren... they can change/modify/improve their cars withouth bothering too much...
#67
03-30-2011 | 05:20 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,923
From: Venice Beach, CA
Not sure how this thread turned into a pissing contest. Lots of misinformation and opinionated speculation. 
1. The GT2RS is already more than a rival for the 458. savvyboy posted a video a week or so back of his 2RS easily walking away from a 458 at Laguna Seca.
2. I can only imagine that by "458 rival", Porsche mean that they intend to release a new mid-engined based sports car with GT3LE/GT2 power levels. 450~620HP.
3. Coming back to the recent arguments; The Turbo is hell-a fast, but it is by no means a track weapon. It's heavy and the suspension is soft. Said new "458 rival" would have to be more track oriented, similarly to a GT3/2, as that is the playing field that the 458 lives on.
^ more opinionated speculation. take it for what it's worth.
1. The GT2RS is already more than a rival for the 458. savvyboy posted a video a week or so back of his 2RS easily walking away from a 458 at Laguna Seca.
2. I can only imagine that by "458 rival", Porsche mean that they intend to release a new mid-engined based sports car with GT3LE/GT2 power levels. 450~620HP.
3. Coming back to the recent arguments; The Turbo is hell-a fast, but it is by no means a track weapon. It's heavy and the suspension is soft. Said new "458 rival" would have to be more track oriented, similarly to a GT3/2, as that is the playing field that the 458 lives on.
^ more opinionated speculation. take it for what it's worth.
#68
03-30-2011 | 08:13 AM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,454
From: Pennsylvania
NAPO: Sorry if I came on a little strong, I was just trying to say that while you did say other performance factors should be considered besides acceleration, you simply did not consider them. I don't think Porsche will hold back at all on the next Turbo and GT2. I actually think Porsche will give it all they have. I also think that this coming supercar will be the king of the 'ring when it is unveiled, even if it doesn't accelerate as fast as the Turbo or Turbo S. Just remember, you can't use launch control at the Nordschleife.
That's a pretty bold statement. If they can get the GT1 block beyond 500 NA HPs, I bet they designed the 9A1 to do exactly the same. And the 991 Carrera is getting, what 350hp? I think there is a lot of room between 350 and 500. The flat 6 will always remain.
Last edited by Carrera; 03-30-2011 at 08:19 AM.
#69
03-30-2011 | 08:55 AM
FIGJAM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,463
i have been driving cars longer than you have been alive, as im sure most members on here have. look, your passion is commendable but you simply do not have the experience to form an informed opinion regarding these topics. most of your posts read as a child has written them, wonder why?
try to read more and post less, you might just earn some respect.
try to read more and post less, you might just earn some respect.
#70
03-30-2011 | 01:55 PM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 393
From: Venice (THE ORIGINAL ONE!)
Now getting more HP is not that easy because of all the "modern" restrictions to respect: noise/pollution/emissions/ bla bla bla...