Oh noess...another armed citizen!
#1
08-17-2009 | 05:26 PM
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,200
From: Austin, Texas
Oh noess...another armed citizen!
Not exactly what you thought...
Obama: 'Honored and humbled' to speak before veterans
President Barack Obama came to Phoenix this morning to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention.
But the real story, was on the streets outside the downtown convention center, where the corners were packed with vocal opponents and supporters of the his health-care reform plans.
Obama began to address the veterans at 10:06 and finished at 10:39.
Minutes later, he was on his way to the airport and Air Force One, which will take him back to Washington.
Almost immediately, the crowds in the city began to dissipate because of the president was gone the temperatures were rising.
Beginning before 7 this morning, people on both sides of the health-care divide arrived to make clear their positions.
The epicenter of the debate was the corner of 3rd and Washington streets.
People on both sides were chanting and counter-chanting to make their points.
Signs were waved and fingers were pointed, but the overall mood in the city was more excitement than anger.
All morning long, Phoenix police reported no arrests or calls for medical assistance.
Throngs of people, some supporting the president's plan to reform the system, and some opposed to his plan, are milled about, expressing themselves with their voices, hand-made signs, and t-shirts.
Douglas Ducharme, 50, a dispatcher from Tempe, was dressed like the grim reaper in a black hood and gray cape, standing on the corner of 2nd Street and Adams.
Holding a sign that said AARP NOW RIP, he was protesting any changes to the current healthcare system. "This is America. We have the right to choose and the freedom to choose," he yelled.
Army reservist, Lt. Corey Harris, 33, of Peoria, said he just returned from Iraq eight days ago.
He said he has experienced first hand the ability of the government to help administer health care.
"As someone who has been involved in the VA system, I've seen the great job government can do in getting involved in health care," Harris said. "Everyone deserves health care."
Jane Kibler, 56, of Florida, member of the Ladies Auxiliary to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, was on her way over to the convention hall to hear President Obama speak.
She described herself as a Democrat and said she voted for Obama, but said this would be the first time she'll have heard him speak in person.
She said veterans are really looking forward to what he has to say. "I know they (vets) do have some concerns about veterans' benefits."
There were pockets of people on both sides of the health care debate walking around the city.
Elaine Gangbluff, 73, of Phoenix, held a sign that read: If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's free.
"I'm strongly opposed to government running health care. That should be between my doctor and myself," she said.
She added that she is also opposed generally to the president's administration.
"We're printing money we don't have, and borrowing money we can't pay," Gangbluff said.
But those in favor of health-care reform are also out in large numbers.
A line of people in support of the new plan reached down Washington Street between 3rd and 5th streets.
One sight was perhaps a little unnerving to those in charge of making sure everybody remains on their best behavior.
A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.
"Because I can do it," he said when asked why he was armed. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms."
Two police officers were staying very close to the man.
"What he is doing is perfectly legal," Det. J. Oliver, of the Phoenix Police Department said. "We are here to keep the peace. If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time."
Jim Mariman, an Idaho veteran of the Korean War and the Vietnam War, was spending his time outside the convention center rather than in it.
"What we are seeing here is people speaking their minds and their hearts," Mariman said.
Mariman is opposed to Obama's health-care reform plan, but enjoys the fact that those who disagree with him, can disagree with him openly.
"These people can protest because I gave them the right."
There have been some instances of the debate turning a little more contentious.
Leonard Clark, of Phoenix, called himself an Independent.
Standing on the corner near 3rd and Washington streets, he stopped and said those opposed to health-care reform were only doing so because the president "is Black."
Immediately, a group of people opposed to the president's plan surrounded him, yelling "race baiter, race baiter, race baiter" at the top of their lungs.
Doug Ducharme, of Tempe, was one of those yelling.
"This has nothing to do with the president being Black," he said. "My ex-wife is Black."
Another protester, 12-year-old Micah Vandenboom, was there with her parents.
She held a sign that made clear her opposition to the president's health-care reform plans.
"Under Obama, everyone will get the same health care, that's socialism," she said. "It has failed in other countries, you know, like Europe."
Obama: 'Honored and humbled' to speak before veterans
President Barack Obama came to Phoenix this morning to address the Veterans of Foreign Wars national convention.
But the real story, was on the streets outside the downtown convention center, where the corners were packed with vocal opponents and supporters of the his health-care reform plans.
Obama began to address the veterans at 10:06 and finished at 10:39.
Minutes later, he was on his way to the airport and Air Force One, which will take him back to Washington.
Almost immediately, the crowds in the city began to dissipate because of the president was gone the temperatures were rising.
Beginning before 7 this morning, people on both sides of the health-care divide arrived to make clear their positions.
The epicenter of the debate was the corner of 3rd and Washington streets.
People on both sides were chanting and counter-chanting to make their points.
Signs were waved and fingers were pointed, but the overall mood in the city was more excitement than anger.
All morning long, Phoenix police reported no arrests or calls for medical assistance.
Throngs of people, some supporting the president's plan to reform the system, and some opposed to his plan, are milled about, expressing themselves with their voices, hand-made signs, and t-shirts.
Douglas Ducharme, 50, a dispatcher from Tempe, was dressed like the grim reaper in a black hood and gray cape, standing on the corner of 2nd Street and Adams.
Holding a sign that said AARP NOW RIP, he was protesting any changes to the current healthcare system. "This is America. We have the right to choose and the freedom to choose," he yelled.
Army reservist, Lt. Corey Harris, 33, of Peoria, said he just returned from Iraq eight days ago.
He said he has experienced first hand the ability of the government to help administer health care.
"As someone who has been involved in the VA system, I've seen the great job government can do in getting involved in health care," Harris said. "Everyone deserves health care."
Jane Kibler, 56, of Florida, member of the Ladies Auxiliary to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, was on her way over to the convention hall to hear President Obama speak.
She described herself as a Democrat and said she voted for Obama, but said this would be the first time she'll have heard him speak in person.
She said veterans are really looking forward to what he has to say. "I know they (vets) do have some concerns about veterans' benefits."
There were pockets of people on both sides of the health care debate walking around the city.
Elaine Gangbluff, 73, of Phoenix, held a sign that read: If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's free.
"I'm strongly opposed to government running health care. That should be between my doctor and myself," she said.
She added that she is also opposed generally to the president's administration.
"We're printing money we don't have, and borrowing money we can't pay," Gangbluff said.
But those in favor of health-care reform are also out in large numbers.
A line of people in support of the new plan reached down Washington Street between 3rd and 5th streets.
One sight was perhaps a little unnerving to those in charge of making sure everybody remains on their best behavior.
A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at 3rd and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip, and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault rifle) on a strap over his shoulder.
"Because I can do it," he said when asked why he was armed. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms."
Two police officers were staying very close to the man.
"What he is doing is perfectly legal," Det. J. Oliver, of the Phoenix Police Department said. "We are here to keep the peace. If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time."
Jim Mariman, an Idaho veteran of the Korean War and the Vietnam War, was spending his time outside the convention center rather than in it.
"What we are seeing here is people speaking their minds and their hearts," Mariman said.
Mariman is opposed to Obama's health-care reform plan, but enjoys the fact that those who disagree with him, can disagree with him openly.
"These people can protest because I gave them the right."
There have been some instances of the debate turning a little more contentious.
Leonard Clark, of Phoenix, called himself an Independent.
Standing on the corner near 3rd and Washington streets, he stopped and said those opposed to health-care reform were only doing so because the president "is Black."
Immediately, a group of people opposed to the president's plan surrounded him, yelling "race baiter, race baiter, race baiter" at the top of their lungs.
Doug Ducharme, of Tempe, was one of those yelling.
"This has nothing to do with the president being Black," he said. "My ex-wife is Black."
Another protester, 12-year-old Micah Vandenboom, was there with her parents.
She held a sign that made clear her opposition to the president's health-care reform plans.
"Under Obama, everyone will get the same health care, that's socialism," she said. "It has failed in other countries, you know, like Europe."
#2
08-17-2009 | 05:33 PM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
From: Austin, TX
Apparently, we're lowering the bar on how smart you need to be to be smarter than a 5th grader. Precious.
#3
08-17-2009 | 10:51 PM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
From: DerpDerpVille, UT
This came up on Yahoo:
PHOENIX – About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday — the latest incident in which protesters have openly displayed firearms near the president.
Gun-rights advocates say they're exercising their constitutional right to bear arms and protest, while those who argue for more gun control say it could be a disaster waiting to happen.
Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.
The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.
Phoenix police Detective J. Oliver, who monitored the man at the downtown protest,
said police also wanted to make sure no one decided to harm him.
"Just by his presence and people seeing the rifle and people knowing the president was in town, it sparked a lot of emotions," Oliver said. "We were keeping peace on both ends."
Last week, during Obama's health care town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., a man carrying a sign reading "It is time to water the tree of liberty" stood outside with a pistol strapped to his leg.
"It's a political statement," he told The Boston Globe. "If you don't use your rights, then you lose your rights."
Police asked the man to move away from school property, but he was not arrested.
Fred Solop, a Northern Arizona University political scientist, said the incidents in New Hampshire and Arizona could signal the beginning of a disturbing trend.
"When you start to bring guns to political rallies, it does layer on another level of concern and significance," Solop said. "It actually becomes quite scary for many people. It creates a chilling effect in the ability of our society to carry on honest communication."
He said he's never heard of someone bringing an assault weapon near a presidential event. "The larger the gun, the more menacing the situation," he said.
Phoenix was Obama's last stop on a four-day tour of western states, including Montana and Colorado.
Authorities in Montana said they received no reports of anyone carrying firearms during Obama's health care town hall near Bozeman on Friday. About 1,000 people both for and against Obama converged at a protest area near the Gallatin Field Airport hangar where the event took place. One person accused of disorderly conduct was detained and released, according to the Gallatin Airport Authority.
Heather Benjamin of Denver's Mesa County sheriff's department, the lead agency during Obama's visit there, said no one was arrested.
Arizona is an "open-carry" state, which means anyone legally allowed to have a firearm can carry it in public as long as it's visible. Only someone carrying a concealed weapon is required to have a permit.
Paul Helmke, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said people should not be allowed to bring guns to events where Obama is.
"To me, this is craziness," he said. "When you bring a loaded gun, particularly a loaded assault rifle, to any political event, but particularly to one where the president is appearing, you're just making the situation dangerous for everyone."
He said people who bring guns to presidential events are distracting the Secret Service and law enforcement from protecting the president. "The more guns we see at more events like this, there's more potential for something tragic happening," he said.
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.
"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."
Representatives of the National Rifle Association did not return calls for comment.
Gun-rights advocates say they're exercising their constitutional right to bear arms and protest, while those who argue for more gun control say it could be a disaster waiting to happen.
Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.
The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.
Phoenix police Detective J. Oliver, who monitored the man at the downtown protest,
said police also wanted to make sure no one decided to harm him.
"Just by his presence and people seeing the rifle and people knowing the president was in town, it sparked a lot of emotions," Oliver said. "We were keeping peace on both ends."
Last week, during Obama's health care town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., a man carrying a sign reading "It is time to water the tree of liberty" stood outside with a pistol strapped to his leg.
"It's a political statement," he told The Boston Globe. "If you don't use your rights, then you lose your rights."
Police asked the man to move away from school property, but he was not arrested.
Fred Solop, a Northern Arizona University political scientist, said the incidents in New Hampshire and Arizona could signal the beginning of a disturbing trend.
"When you start to bring guns to political rallies, it does layer on another level of concern and significance," Solop said. "It actually becomes quite scary for many people. It creates a chilling effect in the ability of our society to carry on honest communication."
He said he's never heard of someone bringing an assault weapon near a presidential event. "The larger the gun, the more menacing the situation," he said.
Phoenix was Obama's last stop on a four-day tour of western states, including Montana and Colorado.
Authorities in Montana said they received no reports of anyone carrying firearms during Obama's health care town hall near Bozeman on Friday. About 1,000 people both for and against Obama converged at a protest area near the Gallatin Field Airport hangar where the event took place. One person accused of disorderly conduct was detained and released, according to the Gallatin Airport Authority.
Heather Benjamin of Denver's Mesa County sheriff's department, the lead agency during Obama's visit there, said no one was arrested.
Arizona is an "open-carry" state, which means anyone legally allowed to have a firearm can carry it in public as long as it's visible. Only someone carrying a concealed weapon is required to have a permit.
Paul Helmke, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said people should not be allowed to bring guns to events where Obama is.
"To me, this is craziness," he said. "When you bring a loaded gun, particularly a loaded assault rifle, to any political event, but particularly to one where the president is appearing, you're just making the situation dangerous for everyone."
He said people who bring guns to presidential events are distracting the Secret Service and law enforcement from protecting the president. "The more guns we see at more events like this, there's more potential for something tragic happening," he said.
Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.
"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."
Representatives of the National Rifle Association did not return calls for comment.
#5
08-18-2009 | 10:07 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 614
From: Ohio
#6
08-18-2009 | 11:54 AM
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,200
From: Austin, Texas
Editorial FAIL because that sure as hell isn't journalism.
#7
08-18-2009 | 12:43 PM
Teamspeed's Mr. Spock
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,947
From: Los Angeles
This is a country where its subjects willingly gave up their guns to the government.
What's worse, the goernment has cameras everywhere spying on them.
What's worse, the goernment has cameras everywhere spying on them.
#8
08-18-2009 | 12:49 PM
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,200
From: Austin, Texas
Yup, just like Australia.
