This is a rant by a friend of a friend, who is a guy that REALLY knows...

I think the satire below is hilarious.

The author doesn't mention that George Bush senior banned such rifles from import in 1988, simply by executive order,
and no subsequent President has rescinded that order. I believe that to be a big shame.

I also remember in the mid 1980s, that HK battle rifles sold for $450 - $500 in my neighborhood, on a par with AR-15s.
Also, they were considered roughly equivalent in value to AR-15s. I have an HK 91, a semi-auto G3. My gunsmith of
those days, Rich Aldis of Prescott, Arizona, wrote a great article about his "love-hate" relationship with his HK 91, which
is still the most informative, detailed, and balanced piece I ever read on it.

I also remember, within a year or two after the HKs, the Berettas, the Galils, FNCs, and many other good products were
banned by Bush, that HK began running their "Navy SEAL" ads, always depicting an HK product, like a G3. Of course, being
banned, the prices for the remaining ones just go up.

On balance, I prefer the DSA 58 and the M1A over the HK91.

I have to agree with the author, that it is just weird and crazy, that people will formulate these strong, die-hard opinions
about products they have zero experience with. At GM, we have the same problem with all these supposedly knowledgeable
people, telling us how this Ferrari or that Lamborghini is better than our Corvette. The reality is, the only cars they make
that can outrun ours are unavailable for purchase. The ones you can actually buy (and very expensive), can't hang with
our car.

Oh, BTW, the most accurate wrist watch in the world, is a Patek-Phillippe, with a lot of "complications."

Rich


Sent: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:05 pm
Subject: hK


An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world
of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…

But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video
games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a
$2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have
done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to
sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit
any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real
operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is
cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.

And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to
release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic
operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000
rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a
lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you
aren’t a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and
MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but
note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries
are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t
sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll
be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back,
you always do.

Buy our stuff.

Sincerely

HK Marketing DepartmentHK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m not the biggest fan of H und K. I posted
that letter on THR a long time ago as a joke, but it sure did manage to tick a
lot of people off. Ironically, the tag line, HK. Because you suck. And we
hate you, has been popping up in various places ever since.

Sure, they’re decently reliable, decently accurate guns, but they’re massively
overpriced and overrated by legions of fan boys. One of the most frustrating
things about dealing with gun people on the interweb is that folks tend to pick
a brand, and then base some of their self-esteem on that brand. Kind of like
rabid sports fans who feel the need to burn cars if their team wins, or loses,
or they just felt like burning stuff. Say something negative about that team
to one of those rabid fans, and you’re probably going to get beat up. Likewise,
if you say anything negative about the Teutonic superiority of HK, people get
mad at you.

Well, I love hate mail, so here goes.

For each of their wunder guns, you can get something else that costs a lot less,
and works better, and has ergonomics designed by people that actually shoot.
HK came about when some Nazis fled to Spain and built the Cetme. But Cetme
doesn’t sound very tough, does it? So they went back to Germany and became H
and K, and if you call it H and K, fan boys will get mad, and insist that it is
HK, because manly Teutonic operators and Navy SEALs don’t have time to say the
word And. So HK rose to prominence by building the G3, which is what the
Germans call the Cetme.

Now the G3 is a decent rifle. It is a cheap, stamped sheet metal, battle rifle.
It has terrible ergonomics, with a hard to use safety, (and this is coming from
a guy with gorilla hands), and difficult to use charging handle. It is
reliable, because of the roller locking bolt that destroys your brass, and
recoils worse than other competing .308 rifles. The FAL smokes the G3, and the
only reason the G3 exists is because the Germans were too proud to pay royalties
to those uppity Belgians.

The G3 can be really accurate, if you weld a bunch of metal to the sides of it,
stick on a nice barrel, and jack the price up $10,000. And no, that’s not a
typo. The PSG1 is absurdly priced, and the cheaper version, the MSG90 is proof
that if make anything absurdly heavy enough, it can be accurate.

There is a collapsible stock available, which is awesome, if you like getting
hit in the face with a piece of rebar, which is what their $400 stock feels like
when you shoot it. Germans must be tougher than we are or something.

Other stamped, sheet metal guns exist, but HK fan boys mock those as commie
garbage. See, if you build a cheap gun, but it is from Germany, then it is
superior, but if you build a stamped gun in the eastern block (a hundred miles
from Germany) then it is commie garbage.

But what brought HK to international fame and the cover of Dick Marcinko books
(for example, Rogue Force Delta Green Team 7 Ninja Force Alpha II: The
beginning) was the G3s little brother, the MP5. Take a G3, shrink it, and
chamber it in 9mm. At the time, CQB doctrine was to use 9mm subguns. Now the
MP5 is a neat little gun. I have two. They work well, and if compared to the
other subguns of the day, like the Uzi or the Mac, then the MP5 was a lot easier
to use, easier to hit with, and was decently reliable.

The MP5 became famous when the SAS used them to kick the living hell out of some
bad guys at the Iranian embassy. This was marketing gold, and HK rode the wave.
Pretty soon everybody wanted an MP5. It was what all the cool kids were using.
Soon every video game and action movie was filled with HK stuff. HK may have
overrated guns, but they’ve got the best marketing department in the gun
business, and they milked that fee cow until it was dry.

But the MP5 isn’t as great as people make them out to be. They still
malfunction. (if you’re favorite gun hasn’t malfed, you haven’t shot it
enough). The mags are hard to insert on a closed bolt. Safety still sucks.
Most versions don’t have a bolt hold open. Honestly, if I had to get into a
gunfight with a subgun, then I would rather have my PPsH.

HK long guns were mostly unobtainable to US civilians, primarily because HK
hates the civilian market. If you don’t believe me, go talk to them at SHOT
show, and watch them sneer at regular people. They can’t help themselves. But
like all unobtainable things, like Ferraris, and super models, regular folks
start to imagine these unobtainable things as perfection, when really they’re
just an expensive car that spends most of its time in the shop, or a chick with
mental problems and Bulimia. That’s what happened with HK. Their products took
on this aura of coolness amongst the fans, that just isn’t real.

For example, go to any thread on the internet where somebody brings up “What is
the Best Rifle EVAR!” and there is a poll. On the poll will be some HK long
guns that 99.85% of the gun owning public has never seen, let alone shot, but
those guns will have the most votes, because the HK marketing department told
you how awesome they are.

Read up about the XM8 on most gun boards. According to the interweb, the XM8 is
the finest combat implement of all time. In actuality it is a plastic AR18,
that tends to melt, break, and is universally loathed by the Army staff that had
to test it. It takes bizarre attachments, so no US accessories will work. They
took the G36, which is basically a blah rifle, used by a handful of countries
that don’t ever actually shoot people, and uglied it up so that it looks like
the demented lovechild of Bloaty the Pizza Hog and a Super-Soaker.

Or the HK416. According to the internet, the HK416 is the best gun EVER! It is
called THE AWESOME. Lightning bolts of coolness fly from the gun and smite your
enemies with Teutonic fury! However you can’t have one, because you’re a
civilian, ergo, you suck. And HK hates you.

The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, which has been done by like ten
companies now, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future Weapons,
and HK won’t sell it to civilians. In fact, a couple of 416s slipped out into
civilian hands, and HK freaked out about it. There is no legal reason that 416
uppers can’t be sold, but HK despises regular people, and the idea of you having
their long guns offends them.

You can get civilian HK long guns, once in a while, when HK feels like it, but
they’re usually hyper-neutered and over priced. Hell, the last ones were
actually grey, because you know, black is too dangerous, or something.

HK’s new subgun is the UMP. They tend to break. One of our local PDs traded
all of theirs in after they broke all the stocks. Cool idea, because everybody
loves .45, but bad execution.

HK’s flagship pistols, the USP line, are decent polymer handguns. They are
extremely reliable, that is the plus side. On the down side, their triggers
universally suck, but they don’t have to. HK likes to use a square peg in a
round hole, (literally) that makes the trigger pull a lot heavier and grittier
than it needs to be. Why? Beats the heck out of me. The USP series should be
reliable, they’re enormous.

The most annoying thing about the HK pistols is how they cost almost twice as
much as every other polymer handgun on the market. Somehow being made in
Germany means the USP series is worth $800-$1000, when all of the polymer guns
made within a thousand miles are $400-$600. Only most of those guns tend to
have better triggers, are just as reliable, and are usually more accurate.

Then there is the Mk23. Which is huge, accurate, reliable, (which it damn well
better be, since it is the size and weight of a Mini-14) costs as much as a used
car, huge, and is universally despised by the SF that it is issued to. Talk to
anyone that is in an SF unit. The Mk23s they’ve been issued sit unused in arms
room. Did I mention that it is HUGE? But that’s okay, because the HK fan boys
will explain that it is an OFFENSIVE handgun. (scratches head) whatever the
hell that is supposed to mean.

They are reliable, but so is a $125 Makarov. Only the Mak has a better trigger.

I have two guys that I work with that have been to the HK armorer’s school. If
you think I’m biased, you should talk to them. They especially love working
with the Germans. One fellow was yelled at because he had two magazines clamped
together on his MP5, because “NEIN! That is not the H und K way!” Even though
he had bought the mag clamp from HK. When you ask why the original MP5 doesn’t
have a last shot bolt hold open, they’ll yell at you and say, “NEIN! Why would
you want your enemy to know your gun is empty!” Hell, Hans, I just want to know
when my gun is empty!

One friend of mine took his personal MP5, and cut an extra notch into the
collapsible stock, so it would be shorter for when he was wearing his armor, and
also it removed the nasty wobble that all HK collapsible stocks have. It is an
easy fix, and a no-brainer that the HK should have been doing for years. Fritz
at the armorer’s school damn near had an aneurism when he saw this blasphemy
against his ineffectual German gods.

Look, gun owning public, just because you saw it on Future Weapons, or read
about it on the internet, doesn’t make it true. For the love of John Moses
Browning, before you formulate super strong opinions about a weapon, you should
have at least shot the damn thing first.

Do I have anything positive to say about HK? Yes, the sneer of disdain they
give you at SHOT is priceless and entertaining.

 

Now that's funny, and the OP is right on with many accounts. But damnit, i still :love: my HKs

Edit, Actually, I will say HK's customer service outside of LE has drastically improved. I recently had a USPc go back to Travis at HK Trussville, and he was incredibly patient with my requests, followed up in a timely fasion and always polite. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

 

That is funny. I think most guns are overpriced, espcially the new 1911's coming out. I also think a lot of Barrett's stuff is too.

 

He is right on many points, but just as annoying in other areas and with his overall tone of superiority as the "fan boys" he loves to hate, or the HK guys at the SHOT show. I frequently spend time with a few guys who "really know" too, and most of them love their MP5s for the situations they use them in, like their USPs but no better than they like their Glocks, and never carry their 23s 'cause they're stupid big and heavy, although they are good for hitting people over the head with . . .

But the internet is way dumb. The number of pseudo-military / special forces / SWAT / Cops / guys with "secret" backgrounds that they can't talk much specifically about, even on here or the 6 sometimes, is just a joke. As Andrew (DeputyDog) has said before, if I had a nickel . . .

 

wow, I feel so inadequate now... anyone want to buy my USP? $5.

 

Well not to be defensive because I really could care less, but most people who "really know" will not even entertain the argument that you can even compare a Ferrari to anything GM. I understand the argument but it's just wrong. After talking to completely un-biased sources, people that race Vettes and own GM dealerships, knowing everyone at Corvette and GM ect, they will tell you all day if you can buy a Ferrari go for it. Even when comparing the ZR-1 to the 430 or 599, sure there is no doubt the ZR-1 will DESTROY both Ferraris as far as performance...but that isn't enough there is just something that separates Ferraris from every other car on the planet and it's not marketing. I really don't care if you agree with that argument it doesn't matter, my only reason for mentioning this is I wonder if there is something similar about peoples opinion of HKs.

There is really no question in my mind that you probably know more about guns than anyone here, and I'm sure you are right about everything you said. My only point is the Ferrari analogy might not be the best, now if you want to compare Lambo or Porsche to HK; that is a different story. To be honest Porsche would prob be the best comparison since they have about the worst customer service in the planet. They also love to market their cars as race cars for the street, yet if your precious GT3 RS touches the track they can and will void your warranty if the opportunity presents itself. Come to think of it HK and Porsche are probably the same...and guess what they are both German lol. They are both good products that are highly overrated and marketed based on activities that most owners will NEVER engage in thus never be able to challenge their claims. I would say Porsche's investment slash focus on racing is analogous to HKs research and development for the military. Ultimately though, the companies operate on the same philosophy...F__K the customer.

Any thoughts on this?

 

I wouldn't place too much thought into the car analogy, he's a a Vette owner. Just consider the context, and he IS a vetted former special operations guy speaking on his experience.


Mexico Blue, totally agree on the poser thing too. Everyone is a secret squirrel who's done things that they "can't talk about", which is BS. The reality is that a person isn't "secret", details of what they did, yes. A very important distinction that the interweb super soldierrangerspecialforcesgreenberetsealforcerecon pjsuperassassin guys fail to make. The guy that wrote this however, is a vetted real deal.

As for HK, sadly, much of the commentary rings true. HK does treat people like garbage though. And the reality is that there products are realistically over priced if one compares apples to apples. And the reality is also that a good portion of the people on the web who fanboi for HK, are just that. The've been issued one in a LEO tactical position, and thats what they know. Inside the military, they aren't anything special however.

Hell, I have an HK Tactical, and while it is a good shooting gun, I wouldn't take it over my Taurus PT1911. I'd definitely take my LWRC AR over an MP5 anyday. Its not that I do not like HK, but I'd certainly not going out of my way for one.

 

I don't care WHO you are, that's just FUNNY!

Sadly it's also true. Good products, arrogant customer service.

TTgangsta- yes, Porsche customer service is beginning to suck very badly. You may see some interesting commentary from me in the future.

 

commentary hahahahahahaha

pal i will write you a f-ing encyclopedia on those morons luckily there is a company out there that is different...

 

I'm getting into DFW at 8'ish this Thursday, want me to break your car? Or break a Porsche Service manager?