Venom GT Runs 265.7 mph (video)
Apr 2, 2013 | 07:31 PM
#3
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
It would register as a Lotus Elise, just as it would here in the U.S.
As impressive as this accomplishment is, it simply cannot qualify as a production car speed record. Mr. Hennessey has stated himself that the Venom GT's carry Lotus VINs, and further that the first step in building one is to buy an Elise or Exige. It is recognized worldwide that coding information in the Vehicle Identification Number tells us what the car is, and in the Venom GT's case this tells us that the car is a Lotus.
Therefore the Venom GT as constructed is a modified Lotus, meaning it is a Lotus which has been changed from its original state of tune. Regardless of how this was achieved, or the name the result was given, this is a fact that even Mr. Hennessey will not dispute. Unfortunately this makes the Venom GT, as currently constructed, ineligible for any production car speed or acceleration records.
It's no different than any of the highly tuned Ford GT's that show up at events such as the Texas Mile. No one accepts those cars as "production cars".
All due respect John; I see you're watching, but I will not back down on this one.
As impressive as this accomplishment is, it simply cannot qualify as a production car speed record. Mr. Hennessey has stated himself that the Venom GT's carry Lotus VINs, and further that the first step in building one is to buy an Elise or Exige. It is recognized worldwide that coding information in the Vehicle Identification Number tells us what the car is, and in the Venom GT's case this tells us that the car is a Lotus.
Therefore the Venom GT as constructed is a modified Lotus, meaning it is a Lotus which has been changed from its original state of tune. Regardless of how this was achieved, or the name the result was given, this is a fact that even Mr. Hennessey will not dispute. Unfortunately this makes the Venom GT, as currently constructed, ineligible for any production car speed or acceleration records.
It's no different than any of the highly tuned Ford GT's that show up at events such as the Texas Mile. No one accepts those cars as "production cars".
All due respect John; I see you're watching, but I will not back down on this one.
Apr 2, 2013 | 07:41 PM
#4
Thread Starter
| Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 134
We can disagree on definitions and still be friendly about it. If you saw how the car was built and had a chance to drive it, I think you would understand that the Venom GT is every bit its own car, regardless of its Lotus origins and some shared parts. Heck, even the Veyron shares the same key fob as a VW Golf!
Apr 2, 2013 | 08:26 PM
#5
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,406
We can disagree on definitions and still be friendly about it. If you saw how the car was built and had a chance to drive it, I think you would understand that the Venom GT is every bit its own car, regardless of its Lotus origins and some shared parts. Heck, even the Veyron shares the same key fob as a VW Golf!
Congrats John! What a missile! I will give you a call one of these days, i would to work with Henessey.
Last edited by exRockstar; Apr 2, 2013 at 08:28 PM.
Apr 2, 2013 | 08:31 PM
#6
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
John, I have no issues with the way the car is built. If you recall, every time I've brought this issue up, I've commended you for the quality of the build.
There's a reason the word "production" is attached to such records, and there's a reason that word carries so much weight when it is. Building a stupendously fast car is not particularly difficult; there are guys doing it singlehandedly in their own garages all over the world. All it takes is a bit of knowledge and the application of large amounts of cash. There aren't a lot of secrets in that kind of tech anymore, and even without access to any such secrets, low-tech still rewards when generously applied.
However, building a stupendously fast car that also happens to conform to and pass the myriad and constantly evolving standards for road-legal vehicles, is another matter altogether. It's widely acknowledged that doing so is much more difficult, and that's what makes production car speed/accleration records so worthy of their own category. Everything from headlight construction to seat robustness to fuel system design ad infinitum is intensely regulated, to say nothing of the obvious hurdles of crash worthiness and ever tightening emissions regulations.
John, in the past you've made posts right here in this forum giving respect (rightly so) to men such as Mr. Koenigsegg and Mr. Pagani for going about the business of building their cars in this manner, while then stating you pursue a different course. That's fine with me, but when it comes down to defining "production car" for the purpose of these records, it simply can't be stated that Hennessey is playing by the same rules as those two (and others).
The reason the Venom GT is built the way it is, is quite simply to avoid the hurdles of certification altogether. Perhaps the Venom GT will pass all the crash tests; perhaps the engine runs clean enough to pass the EPA sniff test. But these steps have not been taken, tedious steps which every other production car company has to take in order to bring their car to market. It's precisely that effort which defines production cars, and makes the production car records so remarkable.
I'm 99% sure that the SSC Ultimate Aero was never certified for either the U.S. or EU market, but at least you could identify an Ultimate Aero by its unique VIN sequence. As far as I'm concerned, if it was legal somewhere then it was the rightful holder of the top speed record for a time. However, to date Hennessey has yet to be assigned a World Make Identifier by the SAE (the root of all VINs) as a vehicle manufacturer. That fact alone means that the Venom GT could not possibly be a production car.
I'm not surprised that you choose to define production car by a different set of standards; you benefit from doing so. I encourage you to explore constructing the Venom GT as a proper production car, meaning it passes muster with all the regulatory bodies as a Hennessey, not a Lotus. Once you've fought the battle of certification and seen how tough that was, the records the Venom GT achieves might just be all that more rewarding.
There's a reason the word "production" is attached to such records, and there's a reason that word carries so much weight when it is. Building a stupendously fast car is not particularly difficult; there are guys doing it singlehandedly in their own garages all over the world. All it takes is a bit of knowledge and the application of large amounts of cash. There aren't a lot of secrets in that kind of tech anymore, and even without access to any such secrets, low-tech still rewards when generously applied.
However, building a stupendously fast car that also happens to conform to and pass the myriad and constantly evolving standards for road-legal vehicles, is another matter altogether. It's widely acknowledged that doing so is much more difficult, and that's what makes production car speed/accleration records so worthy of their own category. Everything from headlight construction to seat robustness to fuel system design ad infinitum is intensely regulated, to say nothing of the obvious hurdles of crash worthiness and ever tightening emissions regulations.
John, in the past you've made posts right here in this forum giving respect (rightly so) to men such as Mr. Koenigsegg and Mr. Pagani for going about the business of building their cars in this manner, while then stating you pursue a different course. That's fine with me, but when it comes down to defining "production car" for the purpose of these records, it simply can't be stated that Hennessey is playing by the same rules as those two (and others).
The reason the Venom GT is built the way it is, is quite simply to avoid the hurdles of certification altogether. Perhaps the Venom GT will pass all the crash tests; perhaps the engine runs clean enough to pass the EPA sniff test. But these steps have not been taken, tedious steps which every other production car company has to take in order to bring their car to market. It's precisely that effort which defines production cars, and makes the production car records so remarkable.
I'm 99% sure that the SSC Ultimate Aero was never certified for either the U.S. or EU market, but at least you could identify an Ultimate Aero by its unique VIN sequence. As far as I'm concerned, if it was legal somewhere then it was the rightful holder of the top speed record for a time. However, to date Hennessey has yet to be assigned a World Make Identifier by the SAE (the root of all VINs) as a vehicle manufacturer. That fact alone means that the Venom GT could not possibly be a production car.
I'm not surprised that you choose to define production car by a different set of standards; you benefit from doing so. I encourage you to explore constructing the Venom GT as a proper production car, meaning it passes muster with all the regulatory bodies as a Hennessey, not a Lotus. Once you've fought the battle of certification and seen how tough that was, the records the Venom GT achieves might just be all that more rewarding.
