Supercar Engines?
Jun 4, 2011 | 04:45 PM
#1
Thread Starter
| Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 325
Supercar Engines?
Very interested to get views on how important the manufacturer of the engine is to the overall opinions on different supercars. Ferrari obviously makes their own engines but many others do not:
- McLaren F1 - BMW engine
- Pagani Zonda - Mercedes Benz AMG engine
- Koenigsegg - engine based off a Ford racing block
- Mosler - GM LS6 or LS7 engine
does it really matter where the engine is sourced as long as it delivers the expected performance or does its "brand heritage/lineage" matter?
- McLaren F1 - BMW engine
- Pagani Zonda - Mercedes Benz AMG engine
- Koenigsegg - engine based off a Ford racing block
- Mosler - GM LS6 or LS7 engine
does it really matter where the engine is sourced as long as it delivers the expected performance or does its "brand heritage/lineage" matter?
Jun 4, 2011 | 06:01 PM
#3
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 182
I thought Koenigsegg now made their own engines (with casting done in England).
I think the sound of the engine is paramount, it doesn't matter who makes it but as long as it is reliable + powerful and has some character then it should complement the chassis nicely.
I think the sound of the engine is paramount, it doesn't matter who makes it but as long as it is reliable + powerful and has some character then it should complement the chassis nicely.
Jun 4, 2011 | 08:24 PM
#7
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
From: Austin, TX
This is a great question, in light of the (albeit questionable) idea of the Corvette having a 3.0L 10,000 rpm V8.
I can't justify this on any real issue of merit, but I have to admit that I feel like if your car contains an engine that could be built in someone's garage at home (LSx or Ford V8, for example), your car isn't *really* a supercar. So, I suppose brand heritage does matter. I can't get excited about a Lotus with a Toyota engine, either, however fantastic the rest of the car is.
So, that touches on what a supercar engine is not. What it is needs to be addressed as well. For me, a supercar is almost defined by the use of exotic technology to do things better than they would otherwise be done. We all know that you can build a car that puts up the same numbers as a Ferrari or a Lambo (in whatever performance dimension you're measuring), but the technology justifies itself in the *way* the supercar does it, which is inherently subjective. The spine-curdling scream of a high-revving supercar engine, its smoothness of delivery, its responsiveness to the throttle, these are all the things that makes an engine really special.
I also can't really feel like forced induction counts either. Obviously, the Veyron, F40, 959, and Ford GT are bona fide iconic supercars (if not hypercars), but for the engine itself, is the F40's engine the best Ferrari has done, or would the V12 in the Enzo not qualify? Aren't the Carrera GT's V10 or the GT3's F6 the real masterpiece engines from Porsche?
Things get tricky with something like the engine in the LFA. For sure, it hits all of the criteria for 'special', but can anything from Toyota really be 'special'? And if not, why not, beyond simple brand snobbery, which any true car enthusiast should abjure. I'm a fan of the LFA, I really am, but could I bring myself to say no to a McLaren or Ferrari in favor of a Lexus?
I used to own a BMW M5, and the V10 in that thing was a masterpiece, a truly special bit of kit, but I never heard one that really sounded as fantastic as I know it could (like a Gallardo, for example). The stock sound was too tinny and timid, but a lot of the other options sounded like ass at anything other than full throttle, where they were unpleasantly loud. As a result, there was an essential element of character missing from it, because of the knowledge that it *could* have been so much better. So maybe that's it.
I can't justify this on any real issue of merit, but I have to admit that I feel like if your car contains an engine that could be built in someone's garage at home (LSx or Ford V8, for example), your car isn't *really* a supercar. So, I suppose brand heritage does matter. I can't get excited about a Lotus with a Toyota engine, either, however fantastic the rest of the car is.
So, that touches on what a supercar engine is not. What it is needs to be addressed as well. For me, a supercar is almost defined by the use of exotic technology to do things better than they would otherwise be done. We all know that you can build a car that puts up the same numbers as a Ferrari or a Lambo (in whatever performance dimension you're measuring), but the technology justifies itself in the *way* the supercar does it, which is inherently subjective. The spine-curdling scream of a high-revving supercar engine, its smoothness of delivery, its responsiveness to the throttle, these are all the things that makes an engine really special.
I also can't really feel like forced induction counts either. Obviously, the Veyron, F40, 959, and Ford GT are bona fide iconic supercars (if not hypercars), but for the engine itself, is the F40's engine the best Ferrari has done, or would the V12 in the Enzo not qualify? Aren't the Carrera GT's V10 or the GT3's F6 the real masterpiece engines from Porsche?
Things get tricky with something like the engine in the LFA. For sure, it hits all of the criteria for 'special', but can anything from Toyota really be 'special'? And if not, why not, beyond simple brand snobbery, which any true car enthusiast should abjure. I'm a fan of the LFA, I really am, but could I bring myself to say no to a McLaren or Ferrari in favor of a Lexus?
I used to own a BMW M5, and the V10 in that thing was a masterpiece, a truly special bit of kit, but I never heard one that really sounded as fantastic as I know it could (like a Gallardo, for example). The stock sound was too tinny and timid, but a lot of the other options sounded like ass at anything other than full throttle, where they were unpleasantly loud. As a result, there was an essential element of character missing from it, because of the knowledge that it *could* have been so much better. So maybe that's it.
Jun 5, 2011 | 12:18 AM
#8
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 93
From: Waltham, MA/Vero Beach, FL/Fairfield, CT/Grosse Pointe, MI
This is a great question, in light of the (albeit questionable) idea of the Corvette having a 3.0L 10,000 rpm V8.
I can't justify this on any real issue of merit, but I have to admit that I feel like if your car contains an engine that could be built in someone's garage at home (LSx or Ford V8, for example), your car isn't *really* a supercar. So, I suppose brand heritage does matter. I can't get excited about a Lotus with a Toyota engine, either, however fantastic the rest of the car is.
So, that touches on what a supercar engine is not. What it is needs to be addressed as well. For me, a supercar is almost defined by the use of exotic technology to do things better than they would otherwise be done. We all know that you can build a car that puts up the same numbers as a Ferrari or a Lambo (in whatever performance dimension you're measuring), but the technology justifies itself in the *way* the supercar does it, which is inherently subjective. The spine-curdling scream of a high-revving supercar engine, its smoothness of delivery, its responsiveness to the throttle, these are all the things that makes an engine really special.
I also can't really feel like forced induction counts either. Obviously, the Veyron, F40, 959, and Ford GT are bona fide iconic supercars (if not hypercars), but for the engine itself, is the F40's engine the best Ferrari has done, or would the V12 in the Enzo not qualify? Aren't the Carrera GT's V10 or the GT3's F6 the real masterpiece engines from Porsche?
Things get tricky with something like the engine in the LFA. For sure, it hits all of the criteria for 'special', but can anything from Toyota really be 'special'? And if not, why not, beyond simple brand snobbery, which any true car enthusiast should abjure. I'm a fan of the LFA, I really am, but could I bring myself to say no to a McLaren or Ferrari in favor of a Lexus?
I used to own a BMW M5, and the V10 in that thing was a masterpiece, a truly special bit of kit, but I never heard one that really sounded as fantastic as I know it could (like a Gallardo, for example). The stock sound was too tinny and timid, but a lot of the other options sounded like ass at anything other than full throttle, where they were unpleasantly loud. As a result, there was an essential element of character missing from it, because of the knowledge that it *could* have been so much better. So maybe that's it.
I can't justify this on any real issue of merit, but I have to admit that I feel like if your car contains an engine that could be built in someone's garage at home (LSx or Ford V8, for example), your car isn't *really* a supercar. So, I suppose brand heritage does matter. I can't get excited about a Lotus with a Toyota engine, either, however fantastic the rest of the car is.
So, that touches on what a supercar engine is not. What it is needs to be addressed as well. For me, a supercar is almost defined by the use of exotic technology to do things better than they would otherwise be done. We all know that you can build a car that puts up the same numbers as a Ferrari or a Lambo (in whatever performance dimension you're measuring), but the technology justifies itself in the *way* the supercar does it, which is inherently subjective. The spine-curdling scream of a high-revving supercar engine, its smoothness of delivery, its responsiveness to the throttle, these are all the things that makes an engine really special.
I also can't really feel like forced induction counts either. Obviously, the Veyron, F40, 959, and Ford GT are bona fide iconic supercars (if not hypercars), but for the engine itself, is the F40's engine the best Ferrari has done, or would the V12 in the Enzo not qualify? Aren't the Carrera GT's V10 or the GT3's F6 the real masterpiece engines from Porsche?
Things get tricky with something like the engine in the LFA. For sure, it hits all of the criteria for 'special', but can anything from Toyota really be 'special'? And if not, why not, beyond simple brand snobbery, which any true car enthusiast should abjure. I'm a fan of the LFA, I really am, but could I bring myself to say no to a McLaren or Ferrari in favor of a Lexus?
I used to own a BMW M5, and the V10 in that thing was a masterpiece, a truly special bit of kit, but I never heard one that really sounded as fantastic as I know it could (like a Gallardo, for example). The stock sound was too tinny and timid, but a lot of the other options sounded like ass at anything other than full throttle, where they were unpleasantly loud. As a result, there was an essential element of character missing from it, because of the knowledge that it *could* have been so much better. So maybe that's it.
But when it comes engine manufacturers, as long as they've chosen an engine that sufficiently gets the job done, I'm happy.
