*** Official Teamspeed NBA Playoff's Thread***
May 30, 2011 | 09:04 PM
#611
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,552
From: Western Australia
May 30, 2011 | 09:08 PM
#612
Seriously. Change it.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,505
From: Sonoma, CA
First off I apologize to everyone for dragging this thread down by arguing my personal hatred for the way LBJ handles himself, mainly off the court...but in some ways on the court as well.
STLG, I get that you think LBJ is great and great for the game, but this is not an argument that anyone can win. I cannot convince you to hate him, and you certainly cannot convince me to like him
For me, it boils down to LBJ being the complete embodiment of what is wrong with professional sports these days. I come from the old-school times when the teams were bigger than the players and no players were bigger than the game. The showtime Lakers and the great 49er teams of the 80's were the teams that forged my love for sports and the types of athletes I chose to admire. Players like Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott and well as football legends like Jerry RIce, Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Roger Craig who let their actions of the court/field define them. LBJ is a product of his environment, with that environment being everyone always telling him how great he is so they can get a piece of his fame and fortune. I realize that the teams I grew up with did not deal with the media todays pro athletes are faced with. Even so, why does everyone love Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose???? They do not deal with the same level of fame and fortune and LBJ, but they handle themselves admirably in today's media-driven sports world.
MJ, may be the greatest player of all time, and from what I have read, also the biggest prick that ever lived (besides Barry Bonds). I admire him as a player, can't stand the thought of him as a person. IMHO, MJ was the originator of the global icon/build-a-self-brand athlete, which also in my opinion was the start of the blueprint for fame and fortune that so many kids are trying to replicate. Golf is an individual sport, so it works (ed) fine for Tiger, but for team sports it really bugs me and if not handled correctly can really undermine a team.
Its true that all successful pro athletes are ego-maniacs to a certain extent. To me, its all how they chose to let their egos guide their actions. LBJ has much to learn in the humility department and from his recent quotes in the paper, maybe he is taking steps in the right direction....or maybe he isn't taking as much career guidance from his high-school buddies anymore and is listening to some people who are telling him to a) act like he's been there before, and b) he has the earn the right to be mentioned among the greatest of all time. HE may very be well on his way, but has much to accomplish first.
Finally, walking into a tattoo parlor and asking to have this done does not sit well with me, nor will it ever sit well with me.
STLG, I get that you think LBJ is great and great for the game, but this is not an argument that anyone can win. I cannot convince you to hate him, and you certainly cannot convince me to like him
For me, it boils down to LBJ being the complete embodiment of what is wrong with professional sports these days. I come from the old-school times when the teams were bigger than the players and no players were bigger than the game. The showtime Lakers and the great 49er teams of the 80's were the teams that forged my love for sports and the types of athletes I chose to admire. Players like Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott and well as football legends like Jerry RIce, Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Roger Craig who let their actions of the court/field define them. LBJ is a product of his environment, with that environment being everyone always telling him how great he is so they can get a piece of his fame and fortune. I realize that the teams I grew up with did not deal with the media todays pro athletes are faced with. Even so, why does everyone love Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose???? They do not deal with the same level of fame and fortune and LBJ, but they handle themselves admirably in today's media-driven sports world.
MJ, may be the greatest player of all time, and from what I have read, also the biggest prick that ever lived (besides Barry Bonds). I admire him as a player, can't stand the thought of him as a person. IMHO, MJ was the originator of the global icon/build-a-self-brand athlete, which also in my opinion was the start of the blueprint for fame and fortune that so many kids are trying to replicate. Golf is an individual sport, so it works (ed) fine for Tiger, but for team sports it really bugs me and if not handled correctly can really undermine a team.
Its true that all successful pro athletes are ego-maniacs to a certain extent. To me, its all how they chose to let their egos guide their actions. LBJ has much to learn in the humility department and from his recent quotes in the paper, maybe he is taking steps in the right direction....or maybe he isn't taking as much career guidance from his high-school buddies anymore and is listening to some people who are telling him to a) act like he's been there before, and b) he has the earn the right to be mentioned among the greatest of all time. HE may very be well on his way, but has much to accomplish first.
Finally, walking into a tattoo parlor and asking to have this done does not sit well with me, nor will it ever sit well with me.
May 30, 2011 | 09:26 PM
#615
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,675
From: Aiea, HI. STL, MO
First off I apologize to everyone for dragging this thread down by arguing my personal hatred for the way LBJ handles himself, mainly off the court...but in some ways on the court as well.
STLG, I get that you think LBJ is great and great for the game, but this is not an argument that anyone can win. I cannot convince you to hate him, and you certainly cannot convince me to like him
For me, it boils down to LBJ being the complete embodiment of what is wrong with professional sports these days. I come from the old-school times when the teams were bigger than the players and no players were bigger than the game. The showtime Lakers and the great 49er teams of the 80's were the teams that forged my love for sports and the types of athletes I chose to admire. Players like Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott and well as football legends like Jerry RIce, Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Roger Craig who let their actions of the court/field define them. LBJ is a product of his environment, with that environment being everyone always telling him how great he is so they can get a piece of his fame and fortune. I realize that the teams I grew up with did not deal with the media todays pro athletes are faced with. Even so, why does everyone love Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose???? They do not deal with the same level of fame and fortune and LBJ, but they handle themselves admirably in today's media-driven sports world.
MJ, may be the greatest player of all time, and from what I have read, also the biggest prick that ever lived (besides Barry Bonds). I admire him as a player, can't stand the thought of him as a person. IMHO, MJ was the originator of the global icon/build-a-self-brand athlete, which also in my opinion was the start of the blueprint for fame and fortune that so many kids are trying to replicate. Golf is an individual sport, so it works (ed) fine for Tiger, but for team sports it really bugs me and if not handled correctly can really undermine a team.
Its true that all successful pro athletes are ego-maniacs to a certain extent. To me, its all how they chose to let their egos guide their actions. LBJ has much to learn in the humility department and from his recent quotes in the paper, maybe he is taking steps in the right direction....or maybe he isn't taking as much career guidance from his high-school buddies anymore and is listening to some people who are telling him to a) act like he's been there before, and b) he has the earn the right to be mentioned among the greatest of all time. HE may very be well on his way, but has much to accomplish first.
Finally, walking into a tattoo parlor and asking to have this done does not sit well with me, nor will it ever sit well with me.
STLG, I get that you think LBJ is great and great for the game, but this is not an argument that anyone can win. I cannot convince you to hate him, and you certainly cannot convince me to like him
For me, it boils down to LBJ being the complete embodiment of what is wrong with professional sports these days. I come from the old-school times when the teams were bigger than the players and no players were bigger than the game. The showtime Lakers and the great 49er teams of the 80's were the teams that forged my love for sports and the types of athletes I chose to admire. Players like Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper and Byron Scott and well as football legends like Jerry RIce, Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Roger Craig who let their actions of the court/field define them. LBJ is a product of his environment, with that environment being everyone always telling him how great he is so they can get a piece of his fame and fortune. I realize that the teams I grew up with did not deal with the media todays pro athletes are faced with. Even so, why does everyone love Chris Paul, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose???? They do not deal with the same level of fame and fortune and LBJ, but they handle themselves admirably in today's media-driven sports world.
MJ, may be the greatest player of all time, and from what I have read, also the biggest prick that ever lived (besides Barry Bonds). I admire him as a player, can't stand the thought of him as a person. IMHO, MJ was the originator of the global icon/build-a-self-brand athlete, which also in my opinion was the start of the blueprint for fame and fortune that so many kids are trying to replicate. Golf is an individual sport, so it works (ed) fine for Tiger, but for team sports it really bugs me and if not handled correctly can really undermine a team.
Its true that all successful pro athletes are ego-maniacs to a certain extent. To me, its all how they chose to let their egos guide their actions. LBJ has much to learn in the humility department and from his recent quotes in the paper, maybe he is taking steps in the right direction....or maybe he isn't taking as much career guidance from his high-school buddies anymore and is listening to some people who are telling him to a) act like he's been there before, and b) he has the earn the right to be mentioned among the greatest of all time. HE may very be well on his way, but has much to accomplish first.
Finally, walking into a tattoo parlor and asking to have this done does not sit well with me, nor will it ever sit well with me.
I understand what you're saying about the old days where teams were bigger than players, but regardless of who started the new trend (whether it be MJ or not), professional sports have evolved not just because of the players, but because of team management and league ownership. Pro sports, like just about any other big industry, are more about money than anything else. And just like in any other profession every worker has to sell themself to their employer and prove that they are a worthy hire. Some people do it by performing and more-or-less keeping to themselves afterwards (CP3, Rose, Durant) and others perform and make sure everyone around them knows about it (Lebron & Kobe).
I don't think it's fair to compare Lebron and Kobe to CP3/Rose/Durant though because those 3 are exceptional examples of humble players in the league. I don't think many people would argue that any of those 3 are as good as Lebron, but they are certainly just as important to their respective teams as Lebron is to the Heat. They're very respectable players and although they carry themselves better than Lebron (at times), I think Lebron is still pretty humble, especially for a 27 year old doing what he does.
Edit: And yea, that tattoo is pretty bad.
Last edited by STLG; May 30, 2011 at 09:28 PM.
May 30, 2011 | 09:39 PM
#616
Thread Starter
| Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,733
From: Best Coast
E, think your spot on, but your boy OJ came well before MJ! I also believe MJ was a tried and true leader something most who get compared to him are not... Except Kobe that is!
Lebron may actually be growing up and for our youths sakes I hope it comes to fruition, but like many others I will never forget nor forgive his actions towards maturity.
Lebron may actually be growing up and for our youths sakes I hope it comes to fruition, but like many others I will never forget nor forgive his actions towards maturity.
May 30, 2011 | 10:16 PM
#617
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,675
From: Aiea, HI. STL, MO
Also, in regard the MJ vs. Lebron comparison let me just throw this out there.
Lebron came into the league from high school. No doubt MJ probably could've done the same, but as far as leadership and "grown up-ness" goes, MJ had 4 years of college to develop that.
MJ didn't win his first ring until his 6th season. (Lebron will be getting his in his 8th). Lebron did come in at a younger age, so theoretically he should be able to spend more years in the NBA, but who knows. Maybe the retirement age is determined equally by age and number of years in the league because of wear and tear.
MJ will probably have better career stats than Lebron, but the two are definitely worthy of comparison.
Lebron came into the league from high school. No doubt MJ probably could've done the same, but as far as leadership and "grown up-ness" goes, MJ had 4 years of college to develop that.
MJ didn't win his first ring until his 6th season. (Lebron will be getting his in his 8th). Lebron did come in at a younger age, so theoretically he should be able to spend more years in the NBA, but who knows. Maybe the retirement age is determined equally by age and number of years in the league because of wear and tear.
MJ will probably have better career stats than Lebron, but the two are definitely worthy of comparison.
May 30, 2011 | 10:29 PM
#618
Seriously. Change it.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,505
From: Sonoma, CA
10 years from now, we may very well be talking about LBJ in the same breath as MJ (and most likely Kobe as well). Until then, how about we let our present stars be exactly that, present day stars. Right now LBJ can take his place along side Karl Malone and Barkley among the greatest to never win a title. Once he wins a title or two (the most likely scenario) he can join Wilt and The Big O in that club. When, and only when, LBJ wins numerous titles and has numerous heroic moments in NBA finals series, can he be mentioned in the same breath as MJ, Russell, Bird, Magic, Kareem and yes......Kobe.
May 31, 2011 | 08:22 AM
#619
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,443
From: The Shire
