Spotted! The New C7 Corvette
Dec 13, 2012 | 05:10 PM
#61
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 927
From: MD-PA
Don't take this the wrong way..
But it really boils my bread when some kid comes on line and starts talking about car technology like they are smarter then the company that builds the car in question.
So according to your logic, GM should fire all there Automotive Engineers and cancel the millions of dollars of R&D, and forget about all the success this platform has experience on the race track because a kid with a mustang with hood pins thinks that coils will be better?
Your right, Chances are all of the staff at GM are retarded and have no chance of being as genius as you and are far too lazy to install coils in this car to please you.
I bet if it had a soild rear axle you would not be complaining?
I get that you have come on the Internets to express your opinion, and that is fine. However coming on here and talking down to a bunch of people on a subject you know very little about makes you look a tad but silly.
Engineers out there will understand were I'm coming from.
But it really boils my bread when some kid comes on line and starts talking about car technology like they are smarter then the company that builds the car in question.
So according to your logic, GM should fire all there Automotive Engineers and cancel the millions of dollars of R&D, and forget about all the success this platform has experience on the race track because a kid with a mustang with hood pins thinks that coils will be better?
Your right, Chances are all of the staff at GM are retarded and have no chance of being as genius as you and are far too lazy to install coils in this car to please you.
I bet if it had a soild rear axle you would not be complaining?
I get that you have come on the Internets to express your opinion, and that is fine. However coming on here and talking down to a bunch of people on a subject you know very little about makes you look a tad but silly.
Engineers out there will understand were I'm coming from.
"Don't take this the wrong way but..." followed by a bunch of personal insults. Very clever. I'm not talking down to anyone, actually, it is you that is doing that. I could tell when you missed every mod on the list except the hood pins 
I never said they were stupid, although my tax dollars did have to cover their a$$....I'm gonna laugh when they improve to coils....
Please don't try to make me look as ignorant as you are.
PS: nice shot at the Mustang with that solid rear axle comment
Was it a stock CTS-V or a tuner? Because I went to Spring Mountain once and got my ass whooped by a guy in a white CTS-V sedan. His car *looks* stock, but it's actually a D3 job, complete with suspension mods. Never thought I'd call a CTS-V a sleeper in any capacity, but that one was.
Never really minded the exterior of the Corvette. Doesn't exactly do anything for me(though I once saw a black C3 Stingray at a hot rod show that made me weak in the knees), but it's hardly ugly and you'll never mistake it for anything else. But it's most certainly overdue for a change, and could stand to be more aggressive. I'm not even gonna get started on the interior. That particular horse has been beaten into unrecognizable mush, and GM seems to have gotten the message based on the spy shots.
To be fair, the "Just to be fair" ad was talking about the GT2 C6.Rs , which "only" make 485hp due to class restrictions. Still doesn't make much sense, as the GT2 cars don't have engines based on the LS9, but it is true that their race cars are actually making less power than their road cars(though, if you take off the restrictors on the 5.5L, even the LS9 would pale in comparison). Of course, this is true for just about every manufacturer in the class, but none of their road cars are making as much power as a ZR1 in the first place. Again, doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you stop to think about it, but that's marketing for you.
Never really minded the exterior of the Corvette. Doesn't exactly do anything for me(though I once saw a black C3 Stingray at a hot rod show that made me weak in the knees), but it's hardly ugly and you'll never mistake it for anything else. But it's most certainly overdue for a change, and could stand to be more aggressive. I'm not even gonna get started on the interior. That particular horse has been beaten into unrecognizable mush, and GM seems to have gotten the message based on the spy shots.
To be fair, the "Just to be fair" ad was talking about the GT2 C6.Rs , which "only" make 485hp due to class restrictions. Still doesn't make much sense, as the GT2 cars don't have engines based on the LS9, but it is true that their race cars are actually making less power than their road cars(though, if you take off the restrictors on the 5.5L, even the LS9 would pale in comparison). Of course, this is true for just about every manufacturer in the class, but none of their road cars are making as much power as a ZR1 in the first place. Again, doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you stop to think about it, but that's marketing for you.
Last edited by TheStigSC; Dec 13, 2012 at 05:22 PM.
Dec 13, 2012 | 07:01 PM
#62
Teamspeed Rookie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
If/When GM switches to coils, it will most likely be a matter of cost, not improvement over the previous system. Coil springs are cheaper than the composite leafs(yeah, bet you never thought you'd hear about GM going with a MORE expensive option). Plus, everyone uses coils, so when new technology is developed for coils, GM can't just jump right on the bandwagon. They have to spend money trying to find a way to reverse-engineer the tech and apply it to the Corvette-specific suspension.
It's the same principle that, I believe, will eventually result in a switch to DOHC over OHV. Most, if not all of the new engine tech being developed nowadays is for DOHC engines. If GM, or Chrysler for that matter, wants to apply it to their performance engines, they need to find ways to make it work just as well with an OHV motor(Direct Injection, for example). I think that, eventually, the costs of improving their LS/LT and Hemi engines to keep up with the competition will begin to outweigh the cost savings of having a simpler engine. So when an LT-series or Hemi ends up costing more to produce than an equivalent DOHC engine, I think that's when the OHV architecture will truly go the way of the dinosaurs.
It's the same principle that, I believe, will eventually result in a switch to DOHC over OHV. Most, if not all of the new engine tech being developed nowadays is for DOHC engines. If GM, or Chrysler for that matter, wants to apply it to their performance engines, they need to find ways to make it work just as well with an OHV motor(Direct Injection, for example). I think that, eventually, the costs of improving their LS/LT and Hemi engines to keep up with the competition will begin to outweigh the cost savings of having a simpler engine. So when an LT-series or Hemi ends up costing more to produce than an equivalent DOHC engine, I think that's when the OHV architecture will truly go the way of the dinosaurs.
Dec 13, 2012 | 10:25 PM
#64
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 927
From: MD-PA
Woah wait, are you sure about that? I was almost positive it was the other way around.
Dec 13, 2012 | 11:45 PM
#65
Teamspeed Rookie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 28
The problem is how they're made and what's required to make them. You can get quality coil springs from just about anyone, for anything. The same machine(s) could be used to produce springs for a Ferrari, an Audi or a Lotus. But the composite leafs are entirely unique to the Corvette, and as such they aren't exactly mass-produced. Every one GM makes is basically a custom job; a bespoke part you're not gonna find on anything but a Corvette, even across GM's own line-up. They can't just buy the springs from the lowest bidder; they have to make every one of them in-house. That's already expensive, and that's not even considering the material the springs are made of.
Just look at springs sold as individual parts. A single composite mono-leaf for a C6 can run you well over $1000. Even replacement springs for a C5 can run that high, if you've got the Z51 package or a Z06. For that price, you can get two decently high-quality coilovers for the front or rear. Now hardcore racing kits will of course cost more, but that's not something you'd see on a regular road car anyway. Honestly, I'm surprised GM still uses them. If they replaced them with coils, they probably could've at least put halfway decent seats in the C6 with the money they saved. But then the Corvette would be heavier and blah, blah, blah, corporate excuses, marketing speak, you get the picture.
Dec 14, 2012 | 09:12 AM
#66
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 927
From: MD-PA
Yep, the Corvette's leaf springs are definitely more expensive than a typical coil spring. I can't remember where it's from, but I once read an article where the author said something along the lines of "For the weight of one coil, you could have two leaf springs. But for the price of one leaf spring, you could have two coils". I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea.
The problem is how they're made and what's required to make them. You can get quality coil springs from just about anyone, for anything. The same machine(s) could be used to produce springs for a Ferrari, an Audi or a Lotus. But the composite leafs are entirely unique to the Corvette, and as such they aren't exactly mass-produced. Every one GM makes is basically a custom job; a bespoke part you're not gonna find on anything but a Corvette, even across GM's own line-up. They can't just buy the springs from the lowest bidder; they have to make every one of them in-house. That's already expensive, and that's not even considering the material the springs are made of.
Just look at springs sold as individual parts. A single composite mono-leaf for a C6 can run you well over $1000. Even replacement springs for a C5 can run that high, if you've got the Z51 package or a Z06. For that price, you can get two decently high-quality coilovers for the front or rear. Now hardcore racing kits will of course cost more, but that's not something you'd see on a regular road car anyway. Honestly, I'm surprised GM still uses them. If they replaced them with coils, they probably could've at least put halfway decent seats in the C6 with the money they saved. But then the Corvette would be heavier and blah, blah, blah, corporate excuses, marketing speak, you get the picture.
The problem is how they're made and what's required to make them. You can get quality coil springs from just about anyone, for anything. The same machine(s) could be used to produce springs for a Ferrari, an Audi or a Lotus. But the composite leafs are entirely unique to the Corvette, and as such they aren't exactly mass-produced. Every one GM makes is basically a custom job; a bespoke part you're not gonna find on anything but a Corvette, even across GM's own line-up. They can't just buy the springs from the lowest bidder; they have to make every one of them in-house. That's already expensive, and that's not even considering the material the springs are made of.
Just look at springs sold as individual parts. A single composite mono-leaf for a C6 can run you well over $1000. Even replacement springs for a C5 can run that high, if you've got the Z51 package or a Z06. For that price, you can get two decently high-quality coilovers for the front or rear. Now hardcore racing kits will of course cost more, but that's not something you'd see on a regular road car anyway. Honestly, I'm surprised GM still uses them. If they replaced them with coils, they probably could've at least put halfway decent seats in the C6 with the money they saved. But then the Corvette would be heavier and blah, blah, blah, corporate excuses, marketing speak, you get the picture.
Dec 17, 2012 | 04:38 PM
#67
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 872
Dec 22, 2012 | 10:10 PM
#68
Teamspeed Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
StigSC, is so right they need to do some drastic changes to the Vette, make it diffrent from the other years. Even though I'm not a mustang fan, they at least took a diffrent direction and it helped, same with the Camero and Even the Viper.
And someone mention hangs with the best of them. i'm not sure about that the Porsche GT3, R8 and GTR all wiped the floor with the ZR1.
And someone mention hangs with the best of them. i'm not sure about that the Porsche GT3, R8 and GTR all wiped the floor with the ZR1.
the ring? Laguna Seca? VIR? Hockenheim?
please elaborate
Last edited by kfmcmahon; Dec 22, 2012 at 10:18 PM.