Need legal advise
#1
05-16-2010, 02:25 PM
Need legal advise
Need legal advice
So today I'm on the interstate with my sons in the M5. A state trooper is in the far right lane going much slower than the general traffic.
Multiple cars go past him ahead of me. So I go by him at a normal rate. With a couple seconds after I past him, he moves up right behind me and his lights are on. I'm saying, WTF!
So I pull over and he asks, "do you know why I pulled you over"? I say, "sir I have no idea". HERE IT COMES.
He tells me I have an "illegal exhaust". He quotes me some statute (who the fuk knows) which states it is illegal to remove or change the factory exhaust. PERIOD.
Now he slaps me with a $129 ticket which is supposed to carry a TWO POINTS hit on my license. WTF!!
I asked him but this is not a moving violation? He says that's the law.
Second choice: go to court
Third choice: I have 30 days to put it back to stock and even then the fine goes from $129 to $109. BFD! Don't remember if the 2 points are still charged or not. I was so fukin pissed I couldn't think straight. This POS trooper had nothing better to do. I've driven past many many cops and zero problems.
If it truly is illegal to put on aftermarket exhausts then why are they allowed to be sold? Not trying to over simplify.
Any lawyers out there especially in Florida that could comment on this so called statute. He checked off on the citation, improper or unsafe equipment.
My feeling is to fight it. Is it worth it to lawyer up? I don't care about the stupid fine but the 2 points is a shocker for this issue. Is this real?
Man I'm pissed.
Ranger
So today I'm on the interstate with my sons in the M5. A state trooper is in the far right lane going much slower than the general traffic.
Multiple cars go past him ahead of me. So I go by him at a normal rate. With a couple seconds after I past him, he moves up right behind me and his lights are on. I'm saying, WTF!
So I pull over and he asks, "do you know why I pulled you over"? I say, "sir I have no idea". HERE IT COMES.
He tells me I have an "illegal exhaust". He quotes me some statute (who the fuk knows) which states it is illegal to remove or change the factory exhaust. PERIOD.
Now he slaps me with a $129 ticket which is supposed to carry a TWO POINTS hit on my license. WTF!!
I asked him but this is not a moving violation? He says that's the law.
Second choice: go to court
Third choice: I have 30 days to put it back to stock and even then the fine goes from $129 to $109. BFD! Don't remember if the 2 points are still charged or not. I was so fukin pissed I couldn't think straight. This POS trooper had nothing better to do. I've driven past many many cops and zero problems.
If it truly is illegal to put on aftermarket exhausts then why are they allowed to be sold? Not trying to over simplify.
Any lawyers out there especially in Florida that could comment on this so called statute. He checked off on the citation, improper or unsafe equipment.
My feeling is to fight it. Is it worth it to lawyer up? I don't care about the stupid fine but the 2 points is a shocker for this issue. Is this real?
Man I'm pissed.
Ranger
#2
05-16-2010, 03:44 PM
I feel for you bro, we have the same problem here too. You bump into some POS cops who's PMSing.. and rest assured he's gonna f*ck with you!
#4
05-16-2010, 04:57 PM
Yes but I do not want to make anymore of it than needed, ie. legal costs.
I am perfectly fine in paying their stupid $129 fine but it's the issue of TWO FUKIN POINTS on my license which I am pissed about.
This ia not a moving violation and should be no different than an illegal window tint. So why a 2 points charge against my license.
I looked up the Florida statue 316.293 and it states nothing about points.
If aftermarket exhaust are illegal then why are they allowed to be sold?
I'm not a rocket scientist but seems a pretty simple question.
Anyway I will fight it. If this POS I got nothing better to do cop was lying to me it will not stand.
Ranger
I am perfectly fine in paying their stupid $129 fine but it's the issue of TWO FUKIN POINTS on my license which I am pissed about.
This ia not a moving violation and should be no different than an illegal window tint. So why a 2 points charge against my license.
I looked up the Florida statue 316.293 and it states nothing about points.
If aftermarket exhaust are illegal then why are they allowed to be sold?
I'm not a rocket scientist but seems a pretty simple question.
Anyway I will fight it. If this POS I got nothing better to do cop was lying to me it will not stand.
Ranger
#5
05-16-2010, 05:39 PM
I'm no lawyer, but to me it reads that you can have an aftermarket exhaust as long as it is not louder than the factory exhaust.
(5) NOISE ABATEMENT EQUIPMENT MODIFICATIONS.--
(a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle or any other noise-abatement device of a motor vehicle operated or to be operated upon the highways of this state in such a manner that the noise emitted by the motor vehicle is above that emitted by the vehicle as originally manufactured. (You cannot modify an exhaust to be louder than factory levels)
(b) No person shall operate a motor vehicle upon the highways of the state with an exhaust system or noise-abatement device so modified. (You cannot drive a car, e.g. your buddy's, with an exhaust modified to be louder than factory levels)
(7) VIOLATIONS.--A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
Florida Traffic Violation Point System
Yep, it's 2 points. "Improper equipment or vehicle in an unsafe condition." You have 10 days from receipt of the ticket to correct the exhaust if you want no points. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle or any other noise-abatement device of a motor vehicle operated or to be operated upon the highways of this state in such a manner that the noise emitted by the motor vehicle is above that emitted by the vehicle as originally manufactured. (You cannot modify an exhaust to be louder than factory levels)
(b) No person shall operate a motor vehicle upon the highways of the state with an exhaust system or noise-abatement device so modified. (You cannot drive a car, e.g. your buddy's, with an exhaust modified to be louder than factory levels)
(7) VIOLATIONS.--A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.
Florida Traffic Violation Point System
Last edited by Overtaker; 05-16-2010 at 06:15 PM.
#6
05-16-2010, 05:54 PM
I bet he has nothing to do, they try their luck on the silliest of things like man exhaust system or the slightest modifications. Its the same thing over here.
#7
05-16-2010, 05:54 PM
Looks like you can get out of this. They have to measure the dB levels with a meter. Did he do such a thing? The law deals only with noise, not with mere "modifications." If he didn't measure it with a meter, then he cannot prove that your exhaust is in violation of the law. I've never been able to see sound levels with my eyes 
(3) MEASUREMENT PROCEDURES.--The measurement procedures for determining compliance with this section shall be established by regulation of the Department of Environmental Protection as provided in s. 403.415(9), in cooperation with the department. Such regulations shall include the selection of measurement sites and measurement procedures and shall take into consideration accepted scientific and professional methods for the measurement of vehicular sound levels. The measurement procedures may include adjustment factors to be applied to the noise limit for measurement distances of other than 50 feet from the center of the lane of travel.
403.415 Motor vehicle noise.--
(5) TEST PROCEDURES.--The test procedures for determining compliance with this section shall be established by regulation of the department and in cooperation with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles in substantial conformance with applicable standards and recommended practices established by the Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc., or its successor bodies, and the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or its successor bodies, for the measurement of motor vehicle sound levels.
(9) OPERATING VEHICLE NOISE MEASUREMENTS.--The department shall establish, with the cooperation of the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, measurement procedures for determining compliance of operating vehicles with the noise limits of s. 316.293(2). The department shall advise the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles on technical aspects of motor vehicle noise enforcement regulations, assist in the training of enforcement officers, and administer a sound-level meter loan program for local enforcement agencies.
403.415 Motor vehicle noise.--
(5) TEST PROCEDURES.--The test procedures for determining compliance with this section shall be established by regulation of the department and in cooperation with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles in substantial conformance with applicable standards and recommended practices established by the Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc., or its successor bodies, and the American National Standards Institute, Inc., or its successor bodies, for the measurement of motor vehicle sound levels.
(9) OPERATING VEHICLE NOISE MEASUREMENTS.--The department shall establish, with the cooperation of the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, measurement procedures for determining compliance of operating vehicles with the noise limits of s. 316.293(2). The department shall advise the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles on technical aspects of motor vehicle noise enforcement regulations, assist in the training of enforcement officers, and administer a sound-level meter loan program for local enforcement agencies.
Last edited by Overtaker; 05-16-2010 at 06:16 PM.
#8
05-16-2010, 06:07 PM
What exhaust, if you don't mind my asking?
Anyhow, an overview of the Florida points system:
Florida Traffic Violation Point System
Quickly looking over § 316.293 (link), if it's louder than stock, it's illegal and you can get ticketed & pointed accordingly.
Assuming they're sold locally in the state, contact the manufacturer (or the local distributor for them, if needed) and ask them to send you a copy of the certificate that they filed with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection stating that it complies with § 316.293 (which they're legally obligated to do under § 403.415). Or even, just try and find the manufacturer sound measurements for both the stock exhaust and also whatever one you had installed.
I'd think that, and I'm not an attorney so I have no idea whether or not it's a valid defense, but if it was bought and installed in-state, you'd be able to contend you had a good faith reason to believe it legal (otherwise it couldn't be sold within the state).
Overtaker: the statute doesn't say that the Officer has to measure it with a dB meter in order to write the violation. It's merely directing the DEP to help loan meters to law enforcement. Key difference; you won't get out of it by just saying "hey, no dB meter!" Rather, you need to prove that the exhaust is NOT louder than stock.
Simple as that; even if it's just a hair louder, it's in violation. The exact measurement doesn't matter.
Of course, if Ranger were say accelerating or had missed a shift (or was sitting in too low a gear, even), that would certainly make it a louder note.
Anyhow, an overview of the Florida points system:
Florida Traffic Violation Point System
Quickly looking over § 316.293 (link), if it's louder than stock, it's illegal and you can get ticketed & pointed accordingly.
Assuming they're sold locally in the state, contact the manufacturer (or the local distributor for them, if needed) and ask them to send you a copy of the certificate that they filed with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection stating that it complies with § 316.293 (which they're legally obligated to do under § 403.415). Or even, just try and find the manufacturer sound measurements for both the stock exhaust and also whatever one you had installed.
I'd think that, and I'm not an attorney so I have no idea whether or not it's a valid defense, but if it was bought and installed in-state, you'd be able to contend you had a good faith reason to believe it legal (otherwise it couldn't be sold within the state).
Overtaker: the statute doesn't say that the Officer has to measure it with a dB meter in order to write the violation. It's merely directing the DEP to help loan meters to law enforcement. Key difference; you won't get out of it by just saying "hey, no dB meter!" Rather, you need to prove that the exhaust is NOT louder than stock.
Simple as that; even if it's just a hair louder, it's in violation. The exact measurement doesn't matter.
Of course, if Ranger were say accelerating or had missed a shift (or was sitting in too low a gear, even), that would certainly make it a louder note.
#9
05-16-2010, 06:25 PM
Does the officer not need to prove that the exhaust is louder than 79 dB A?
It says here that the sound level limit is 79 dB A.
The burden is on the officer to prove that GT3Ranger was in violation of the law, which can only determined by measuring the sound level. The officer did not do that. He looked at the exhaust, and wrote the ticket. You don't measure sound with your eyes. It requires equipment.
It says here that the sound level limit is 79 dB A.
The burden is on the officer to prove that GT3Ranger was in violation of the law, which can only determined by measuring the sound level. The officer did not do that. He looked at the exhaust, and wrote the ticket. You don't measure sound with your eyes. It requires equipment.
