A little RS review after 5 weeks ownership
#1
05-09-2010, 08:52 AM
A little RS review after 5 weeks ownership
I wrote this on another forum so you wont know all the names. You might be intrested too though:
Although in a total storm I have now experienced a track day in the RS. First off I should say Rocking ham was a disappointment, Ken etc did warn me but it needed to be done, nothing else was on so that’s that. In this weather there were a lot of spins, yellow and red flags during the day, I don’t think anyone got hurt but I would occasionally have to sweep around the side of a stranded caterham around a corner. Standing water covered the track and windscreen wipers were on maximum setting so all the speedway banking sections were taken very gingerly at cruising speed in low revs, the fear of doing damage to the new pride and joy was constantly on my mind and simply not worth the hassle. Most the other areas of the track however had plenty of run off and in wet weather and tighter sections there was a good chance to see how the car reacts.
I have only driven the CSL on track so that is going to be my base of comparison.
The car is mighty but manageable due to the long gearing and low down torque. I have realised on the road I hardly ever breech 4krpm and I think that’s down to the fact that 4krpm feels like the redline in the CSL. On track, for the 30 mins where it started to dry out before the rain came back I found out what this car could potentially do and it is savage. 8.5krpm in second and third gear then a bit in fourth happens in the blink of an eye and the process of flat shifting, and slotting each gear in is a revolution. I thought this would be the most challenging part of the car but I have taken to it naturally and it’s added a new dimension to the experience however for me the biggest difference between the RS and the CSL is the dynamics.
The CSL did under steer but it was always easily controlled and with a prod of throttle could be transferred in to oversteer. Generally it happened when you went in to some of the tighter sections of the track a bit too quickly, or start to push on out of them just a tad early pushing the nose of line. The RS has the same tendencies but to a much more dramatic effect. It may be down to set up, the weather or my lack of experience of the car (most likely all three) but I found it very hard to control the understeer. I tried trail braking, getting off the throttle to push weight forward and stabbing the throttle but 8 times out of 10 I couldn’t carry the speed through the corners that I wanted too. There is a knack to this and I need to get on a nice dry circuit with Mr Wilds to see what it can do. Any other advice on geo etc would be appreciated, I don’t want a full track set up for the road like I did in the CSL but something in the middle I would have thought. Anyway, it should be noted that the power I could put down on cups, in the wet out of corners really was quite astonishing. 325 section rear tyres, an engine squashing them to the tarmac and a long controllable throttle mean you can exit like a slingshot. If it was dry I would have used second gear a lot more than I did and I know I could have got the power down. This car is going to be ‘fairly unpassable’ in the dry I think.
Steering feel is a revelation and now I understand its purpose. The CSL has very light steering which is fed through a thick wadded steering wheel. There is feel but not to the acute level of the Porsche. The RS tells you everything and the consequence of that is you know how to push the car. It tells you when you are doing things wrong but surprisingly it let you know when you do things right and this is what the BMW did not offer. It can be very satisfying and really one of the main reasons why I love this car.
I have dismissed the engine noise in the past to be a little quiet and subdued from inside the cabin, not having the same all consuming shriek as the BM but I don’t think I have been driving it right. On track, ringing its neck, wearing a helmet, strapped to your fantastically supportive seat it feels and sounds like a race car. The noise bubbles through the helmet and echos around in there, its deep and has depth, not the same as the CSL but from the cabin at least, in my opinion better! I look forward to standing at the pits watching another fly past so I can hear it shriek and over run.
The brakes are a little disappointing. Speccing PCCB’s was discussed at length on here and the biggest 2 negatives that most occasionally came up were a) the feel and b) the abs kicking in early. I would agree but it’s the feel which gets me. The car is so complete in everyway, such a tight and keen devise that serves its purpose to perfection, but the brakes don’t feel like they belong on this car. They are progressive in the sense pressure is exponentially transferred, but you get nothing back, especially under light pressure. I wonder if it’s the stock pads and another like RS29’s would solve the issue? I doubt they need bedding in further, I have now covered over 1600 miles.
In the dry, I know from the road and my Silverstone experience, the brakes are fine and when you get heat in to them you can claw some of the feel back but on a soaking wet Rockingham when you are being rather tentative and looking for braking feedback it did make the position more difficult. Again it is probably something I will get used to but any pads or set up advise would be appreciated.
I suppose the big question is am I pleased with my purchase? I suppose I should make a judgement call around now, 5 weeks in while the value is still strong. Is it worth it to me or do I cut loose and fill my back pocket?
Answer is its not going anywhere. It is a fantastic bit of kit which is absolutely perfect for me. It drives like a dream, its faster than I thought could be possible for a 3.8, 450bhp car and like the CSL punches above its own weight. Money no object this car would be in my garage and would most probably be the pick of the fleet. Nothing I have driven has come close in terms of excitement, and it looks the part, in-fact, in my opinion - best looking car on sale.
The inside is plush, comfortable and has all the tools to make a perfect everyday car, however after 5 weeks of thought and 1600 miles I have decided I need another car. This car needs to feel special, I think Greg was the one that first put this too me. Driving it everyday will spoil it. I need something more normal (and economical) for driving to the office (ill post another thread about that this afternoon).
So an 12 out of 10, a very pleased Sam and still happy I didn’t have the extra £40k in my pocket and go for the old one. Is it worth 6 times the CSL at current values? No, but it is certainly worth double which is what it would be if both were new.
Although in a total storm I have now experienced a track day in the RS. First off I should say Rocking ham was a disappointment, Ken etc did warn me but it needed to be done, nothing else was on so that’s that. In this weather there were a lot of spins, yellow and red flags during the day, I don’t think anyone got hurt but I would occasionally have to sweep around the side of a stranded caterham around a corner. Standing water covered the track and windscreen wipers were on maximum setting so all the speedway banking sections were taken very gingerly at cruising speed in low revs, the fear of doing damage to the new pride and joy was constantly on my mind and simply not worth the hassle. Most the other areas of the track however had plenty of run off and in wet weather and tighter sections there was a good chance to see how the car reacts.
I have only driven the CSL on track so that is going to be my base of comparison.
The car is mighty but manageable due to the long gearing and low down torque. I have realised on the road I hardly ever breech 4krpm and I think that’s down to the fact that 4krpm feels like the redline in the CSL. On track, for the 30 mins where it started to dry out before the rain came back I found out what this car could potentially do and it is savage. 8.5krpm in second and third gear then a bit in fourth happens in the blink of an eye and the process of flat shifting, and slotting each gear in is a revolution. I thought this would be the most challenging part of the car but I have taken to it naturally and it’s added a new dimension to the experience however for me the biggest difference between the RS and the CSL is the dynamics.
The CSL did under steer but it was always easily controlled and with a prod of throttle could be transferred in to oversteer. Generally it happened when you went in to some of the tighter sections of the track a bit too quickly, or start to push on out of them just a tad early pushing the nose of line. The RS has the same tendencies but to a much more dramatic effect. It may be down to set up, the weather or my lack of experience of the car (most likely all three) but I found it very hard to control the understeer. I tried trail braking, getting off the throttle to push weight forward and stabbing the throttle but 8 times out of 10 I couldn’t carry the speed through the corners that I wanted too. There is a knack to this and I need to get on a nice dry circuit with Mr Wilds to see what it can do. Any other advice on geo etc would be appreciated, I don’t want a full track set up for the road like I did in the CSL but something in the middle I would have thought. Anyway, it should be noted that the power I could put down on cups, in the wet out of corners really was quite astonishing. 325 section rear tyres, an engine squashing them to the tarmac and a long controllable throttle mean you can exit like a slingshot. If it was dry I would have used second gear a lot more than I did and I know I could have got the power down. This car is going to be ‘fairly unpassable’ in the dry I think.
Steering feel is a revelation and now I understand its purpose. The CSL has very light steering which is fed through a thick wadded steering wheel. There is feel but not to the acute level of the Porsche. The RS tells you everything and the consequence of that is you know how to push the car. It tells you when you are doing things wrong but surprisingly it let you know when you do things right and this is what the BMW did not offer. It can be very satisfying and really one of the main reasons why I love this car.
I have dismissed the engine noise in the past to be a little quiet and subdued from inside the cabin, not having the same all consuming shriek as the BM but I don’t think I have been driving it right. On track, ringing its neck, wearing a helmet, strapped to your fantastically supportive seat it feels and sounds like a race car. The noise bubbles through the helmet and echos around in there, its deep and has depth, not the same as the CSL but from the cabin at least, in my opinion better! I look forward to standing at the pits watching another fly past so I can hear it shriek and over run.
The brakes are a little disappointing. Speccing PCCB’s was discussed at length on here and the biggest 2 negatives that most occasionally came up were a) the feel and b) the abs kicking in early. I would agree but it’s the feel which gets me. The car is so complete in everyway, such a tight and keen devise that serves its purpose to perfection, but the brakes don’t feel like they belong on this car. They are progressive in the sense pressure is exponentially transferred, but you get nothing back, especially under light pressure. I wonder if it’s the stock pads and another like RS29’s would solve the issue? I doubt they need bedding in further, I have now covered over 1600 miles.
In the dry, I know from the road and my Silverstone experience, the brakes are fine and when you get heat in to them you can claw some of the feel back but on a soaking wet Rockingham when you are being rather tentative and looking for braking feedback it did make the position more difficult. Again it is probably something I will get used to but any pads or set up advise would be appreciated.
I suppose the big question is am I pleased with my purchase? I suppose I should make a judgement call around now, 5 weeks in while the value is still strong. Is it worth it to me or do I cut loose and fill my back pocket?
Answer is its not going anywhere. It is a fantastic bit of kit which is absolutely perfect for me. It drives like a dream, its faster than I thought could be possible for a 3.8, 450bhp car and like the CSL punches above its own weight. Money no object this car would be in my garage and would most probably be the pick of the fleet. Nothing I have driven has come close in terms of excitement, and it looks the part, in-fact, in my opinion - best looking car on sale.
The inside is plush, comfortable and has all the tools to make a perfect everyday car, however after 5 weeks of thought and 1600 miles I have decided I need another car. This car needs to feel special, I think Greg was the one that first put this too me. Driving it everyday will spoil it. I need something more normal (and economical) for driving to the office (ill post another thread about that this afternoon).
So an 12 out of 10, a very pleased Sam and still happy I didn’t have the extra £40k in my pocket and go for the old one. Is it worth 6 times the CSL at current values? No, but it is certainly worth double which is what it would be if both were new.
#7
05-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Hi Woppum-
Great write-up! Did I mention how beautiful your car is?
Wet/RS/PCCB/Dry tires= not the most optimal combo..lol.
1. Reduce Understeer- Tighten rear sway bar one hole.
2. If still not enough for your tastes, loosen front bar one hole.
3. Leave camber at stock specs. have you had alignment checked yet? Mine was way off from the factory.
4 Only other pads you can use with PCCB are P50 Green motorsport pads. And with those you MUST put some heat into them to get to friction going. I think in the dry you might change your mind on the progressive quality of the PCCB.
Certainly not meant negatively, have you had any instruction in driving Porsche (rear engine) on track? There are certain techniques and driving style to these cars. Investment in a Porsche driving school is great fun and pays dividends forever. It does sound like you are already very knowledgeable in car control.
I fully love my RS (PCCB) on track with twiddled suspension/tire pressures. Certainly no consideration to selling it...
Let us know how things progress!
Great write-up! Did I mention how beautiful your car is?
Wet/RS/PCCB/Dry tires= not the most optimal combo..lol.
1. Reduce Understeer- Tighten rear sway bar one hole.
2. If still not enough for your tastes, loosen front bar one hole.
3. Leave camber at stock specs. have you had alignment checked yet? Mine was way off from the factory.
4 Only other pads you can use with PCCB are P50 Green motorsport pads. And with those you MUST put some heat into them to get to friction going. I think in the dry you might change your mind on the progressive quality of the PCCB.
Certainly not meant negatively, have you had any instruction in driving Porsche (rear engine) on track? There are certain techniques and driving style to these cars. Investment in a Porsche driving school is great fun and pays dividends forever. It does sound like you are already very knowledgeable in car control.
I fully love my RS (PCCB) on track with twiddled suspension/tire pressures. Certainly no consideration to selling it...
Let us know how things progress!
#8
05-09-2010, 12:43 PM
thanks bud, i shall have a look at all of that.
nope i havent had lessons. I will do Mr Wildes in UK is my man, had a good eye on him for ages
Dont want to do it yet though, ill get used to the car by myself and do a day with some decent drivers in gt3's so can learn their lines and braking points.
I have Spa, Castle Coombe, Pau-Arnos and Mas-du-Clos in the next few weeks so will get the chance to see what she is made of.
nope i havent had lessons. I will do Mr Wildes in UK is my man, had a good eye on him for ages
Dont want to do it yet though, ill get used to the car by myself and do a day with some decent drivers in gt3's so can learn their lines and braking points.
I have Spa, Castle Coombe, Pau-Arnos and Mas-du-Clos in the next few weeks so will get the chance to see what she is made of.
#9
05-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Thanks for the review! i going to be tracking my gt3 soon and have only tracked an e92 m3...but have done several canyon runs and this car is just on a whole different level, when people ask about the car im actually quite speechless...as im learning the car, i just get shocked everytime i drive it. its quite astonishing in terms of Feedback, grip, agility, sounds, it simply feeds me like im plugged into the matrix
#10
05-09-2010, 06:39 PM
I have raced GT3 cup cars. The driving style is very different to front engined cars.
You need to brake more speed out of it then front engined cars. Front engine cars have more entry speed. And you can balance the car midcorner.
With the porsche you need to attack corners more in a triangle way. Brake late go a little wide then speed gets out and then you steer to apex and accelerate out. With the CSL you make to corner more round then steer to the apex and balance under and oversteer with throttle. The GT3 gets it s main advantage in late braking and slingshot out of corners. Balancing throttle for under and oversteer won t work with a GT3. To early on throttle is understeer. You need to find the sweetspot when you don t have the understeer to power out of corners. Never play with the throttle midbend with gt3 it only gives understeer.
my english is not that good but i hope you understand.
You need to brake more speed out of it then front engined cars. Front engine cars have more entry speed. And you can balance the car midcorner.
With the porsche you need to attack corners more in a triangle way. Brake late go a little wide then speed gets out and then you steer to apex and accelerate out. With the CSL you make to corner more round then steer to the apex and balance under and oversteer with throttle. The GT3 gets it s main advantage in late braking and slingshot out of corners. Balancing throttle for under and oversteer won t work with a GT3. To early on throttle is understeer. You need to find the sweetspot when you don t have the understeer to power out of corners. Never play with the throttle midbend with gt3 it only gives understeer.
my english is not that good but i hope you understand.