Talking of Pagani's ?

 

Excuse me? I think I was pretty clear with what I said.

 

just kidding ;-)

I don't like the idea of adding a turbo to a Countach, though I am totally in love with the CT.

Are you on the same line ?

 

If mod'd properly I can accept any mod'd car. This car is just fugly.

 

This is way cool.

 

Hi @ all

First at all I have to say "sorry" for my poor english.

I'm a german from Germany, and I'm 43 years old. And I am a real enthusiast of "Lamborghini" ... the history ... the founder ... and the different modells over all the years; from heritage classics to the modern supercars.

I'm new to this board. It's my first posting here. Sure, next to this board I am a member of some other Lamborghini-friendly boards. - Well, I searched the internet for more Infos about the different after-market sportexhaust for a Countach QV ... and it brought me right here to this thread about the "Countach Turbo S".

Of course, I know this car, the owner is well known on a german board, the whole "real" history of this "Countach Turbo S" (next to a cuple of other Countach Turbos on this planet)... and about the different "Turbo"-stories you can find in the worldwideweb.

First: Sorry, but this Countach Turbo S is not (!!!) direct from the italian factory. This conversion was "custom-built".

At the time this black painted Countach Turbo S was for sale, I startet an own thread for a german board. All the people from Teamspeed (who speak the german language) can read the whole story here :

Ex Max Bobnar Turbo Countachs

Hope it is okay and a help for us car-enthusiasts, when I post this link here in this forum. If not, please send me a short message and I will change my posting here.

Okay, but now let's start from the beginning ...

What is 100% sure? - Well, it is sure, that Bob Wallace and "Lamborghini" (at this time Ferruccio was no more the company-leader!) has experimented on 1 (one) Countach-Turbo. And of course, it is believed, that there was a second (2nd) Countach-Turbo originally from the factory. Means 2 original Turbo-conversions on a Countach direct from the factory. One of these both is missing. And none of these 2 original "Countach-Turbo" were sold to the public at that time!!! Maybe later. They were only experimental-cars; means prototyps.

But Bob Wallace was not the only person who wanted more power to the ultimate Countach. There were a handfull of customer with the same wish. Well, the factory was not able to do and to sell such turbo-conversions, and so these customers had to ask different customizing-shops outside the factory.

And now we can go to a cuple of Turbo-conversions. And they are not original and not direct from the factory ...


...

 

1.

Countach LP400s Turbo red paint / black leather Chassis # 1121160

The turbo-conversion was done by a man who worked for the well known company called "Lotec" at that time. And the german "Lotec" did all the turbo-conversions for "koenig-specials". The charger-conversions for "koenig specials" (and many other companies,; next to his own company) did the swiss located "Franz Albert" (short: Albrex-Compressor).

The dashboard, August 12th 1999

Max Bobnar (M.B.SportCars), an authorised Automobili Lamborghini SpA dealer for the Switserland in Europa had his personnal Countach LP400 S modified by Franz Albert, an Austria based engineer who installed two small turbo's on the 4.0 Litre V-12 engine. These turbo's pumped up the horsepower to a healthy 520 Bhp at 6500 rpm, with this engine installed the Countach LP4000 S Twin Turbo managed to reach 100 Km/u (60 Mph) in 4.8 seconds, instead of 5.9 seconds for a 'standard' 4-Litre unit. Top speed for this special Countach isn't recorded, but Max Bobnar drove it at a sustained speed of 290 Km/h (180 Mph) with still room for more, he didn't push it all the way because he didn't know if the standard suspension could cope with speeds above 300 Km/h.

Well, the infos above are not absolut correct, because between the swiss Franz Albert and the german Lotec there were a contract. Official both (means Albert AND Lotec) make turbo- and compressor-conversions. But in real they split the work. Albert did only the compressor-conversions, and Lotec did the turbo-conversions. When it was a swiss customer from Albert, then you will find "Albert-Turbo" an the red painted conversion-parts. When it was a german customer, you will find "Lotec" on the parts. And when it was a customer from the german "koenig-specials", then you will find "koenig-specials" on the red painted parts ... no matter if the conversion from koenig-specials ist a turbo or a compressor. Means no matter if the work was done by Albert or by Lotec. Sounds a little bit difficult, but is very simple. Because koenig-specials never did engine-conversions in-house! Even the body-conversions came from sub-contracts!

To the “Lamborghini-Meetings” this 1982 Countach was transported on a trailer, or it was driven on the streets with using the “dealer-plates” (and back from such meetings on a trailer), because the owner Max Bobnar has had problems with this conversion. But later they were able to fix the problems, and Bobnar drove this Turbo very often … and not slow!

The red Countach Turbo, Chassis #1121160, is still in exist, and it is believed that it now is located in Las Vegas.


...

 

2.

Countach 5000S Turbo black paint / black leather chassis # ELA12712

This is the title-car of this thread we talk about.

- 0 - 100 km/h in 4 sec.
- 0 - 200 km/h in 12,5 sec.
- v/max: 330 km/h
- Albert Bi-Turbo
- first registered in 06/1984
- shows 9500 km the day it was for sale
- between 718 DIN-PS and 750 DIN-PS (it depends on the boost) … the dyno and the car-papers show 748 DIN-PS.

This turbo-conversion was the 2nd “Countach-Turbo” special made for Max Bobnar.

I have the info that this Countach originally was painted in a yellow-gold and that it was registered for the street at the day it was born in 1984.

Next info is, that this Countach no more was registered after the turbo-conversion was done and it was re-painted to black. Because the owner Max Bobnar is a swiss, and with this conversion this Countach was no more street-legal for the Switserland.

Later this Countach-Turbo was sold from Max Bobnar to a car-collector located in Sweden, together with a Miura SV # 5110 and a silver-painted Miura S.

Later it was sold from this Sweden collector to a Danish collector. But he went into financiell problems and so for many years this Countach-Turbo was only an un-used garage-queen. That’s it why it runs only 9500 km from 06/1984 (it was built) to 01.2007 (it was for sale).

In 03/2007 it was bought by Dietmar Götz, and this black Countach Turbo S found a new home next to 3 other Lamborghinis (Miura, Diablo,…). He spent time and money into this Countach, and now it is on the streets. And he changed the QV-engine-hood into the correct 5000S-hood.

This Countach was in some print-magazins. In a very hot test-drive it was driven from the swiss race-driver Marc Surer ( you can see pics and read the test in the german Penthouse from the year 1988). After the new owner bought this Turbo, you can see it in television and an show-display … and of course on the street.




...

 

3.

Countach 25th Anniversary Turbo black paint / mint-green leather chassis # unknown

This car was not only a bi-turbo, it was a quad-turbo. And later it was destroyed when the garage – where it was converted - burnt down in flames.




4.

Countach ??? Turbo white paint / unknown leather-color chassis # unknown

Not much infos about this white Turbo, but it is believed that it now is located in Japan.

But here you can read a nice test …


...

 

ALBREX LAMBORGHINI COUNTACH BITURBO

THE LEGEND LIVES!

Published: January 24, 2009

I can remember very well: Back in 1975, in the age of 13, I saw this car alive for the first time in Munich which would have never let me go again. At that time you didn't say „cool“ but it his arm was parking his firered Lamborghini Countach backwards on Munich's famous boulevard, the Leopoldstrasse. Sitting on the side panel with the guillotine-style door open up. Then he got out of the just 107 centimeters high sportscar, went around the car, opened the passenger's door and helped a blonde with a Farrah Fawcett Majors style lion's mane out of the car. Puuh, a teenage boy will never forget that!

Eight years later I was lucky enough to sit behind the Countach steering-wheel for the first time. Strictly said inside a LP 5000 S I could be delighted by this unique roaring of the V12 carburetor engine just a few centimetres behind me. And I had to learn the hard way that it was pretty hard to manoeuvre this car backwards sitting on the side panel without getting uncool beads of sweat on the brow due to the heavy and hard to measure out clutch and the lack of a power assisted steering.

Since then nearly 25 years have passed and - I love my job - I often had the chance to drive a Lamborghini. Countach, Diablo, Murcielago, Gallardo and of course also their LM 002 off road monster. The cars got better and better allthough they never managed to reach the technocratic perfection of a Porsche.

Nowadays Lamborghinis still look wilder than the rest of the sportscar bunch and at least the Murcielago can cope with that regarding the driving experience - including guillotine-style doors and - thanks to powersteering and automatized gearbox much easier reverse driving on the side panel.

But unfortunately it still isn't a true replacement for my - and I am sure I'm not the only one who's saying that - dreamcar, the Countach. Allthough the LP 640 is certainly much closer to its announced 640 hp than the old LP 5000 S ever was to its claimed 375 horsepowers. Or 340 km/h in comparison to the really possible 270, 275 km/h - without the great, large, best-looking ever rear wing which wasn't standard on the cars back in the early Eighties. Lamborghini already knew at that time how to get another 5 000 000 Lira for a piece of plastic from the customer…

No matter! The Countach is still the biggest show on wheels! In spite of its already proverbial lust to break down or not to start at all, in spite of its, let's call it careless workmanship, in spite of its 1001 defects which don't only require nerves of steel but first and foremost a wallet bulging with banknotes.

Most of all you need an excellent workshop and especially a mechanic whose heart is set on these cars and who also has a huge talent for improvisation. One of the scene's inside tips is Conrad Gruber. The fact that he is still mainly renowned to insiders is one hand caused by the fact that he doesn't make a great fuss about himself and his business. On the other hand it is maybe also because he is quite hard to find. You need the feel of a pathfinder or at least a sophisticated navigation system to find him in Austria, better said in Tyrol, exactly in Wildschönau, Thierbach 236.

Here, about 1200 meters above sea level, the world is still ok and peaceful. It hasn't always been like that: 25 to 30 years ago it was also one of the preferred preserves of the young Gerhard B., later a very talented racing driver, co-owner of a Formula 1 racing team today. In the great-food inns in this region they still love to tell the tales of the young wild man from Wörgl down in the valley, who loved to pursue anything rolling, on two and four wheels, up and down the mountain to the Wildschönau as fast as possible.

Conrad Gruber of course also knows Gerhard Berger. This isn't only caused by the neighbourhood but mainly because he learned his trade from the legendary Tyrolian camshaft pope Franz Albert. When the founding father among tuners, who could easily earn his money as an Albert Einstein double, retreated from Wörgl to his retirement home in Spain ten years ago at the age of close to 70, his mechanic Gruber bought the inventory and Albert's most successful development, the Albrex supercharger.

He has learnt a lot during the twelve years he has worked for the engine tuner before and he especially learned a lot about Italian sportscars since Albert also constructed the engines for formerly famous Ferrari customizer Koenig Specials.

Many customers from these times didn't lose contact to Conrad Gruber and brought their automobile problem childs to his small workshop on an idyllic farm in the Wildschönau. „I could never say there was a lack of work“, the smart 42-year-old man recalls. „In the end I didn't only know the specific problems of their cars and knew how to solve them. I was also always able to make their special wishes come true while every other workshop owner turned away, shaking his head.”

Turbo- and supercharger conversion always were one support leg of Gruber's small company which doesn't only include extra power for many different cars but also a 240 hp turbo version of the Triumph Rocket III motorcycle. The other one always remained the loving perfecting of Italian exotic cars such as the Lamborghini Countach. “When you have worked on these cars for such a long time like me then you will know all their faults. As a result I have specialized in bringing cars as the Countach to today's technical level and to bring them to a stage of reliability that their owners can drive their favourite every day with calling their personal mechanic before.”

The white Countach, which was demonstrated to me by Conrad Gruber on occasion of my visit, is owned by such a customer: “He idolizes this car but he had trouble with it again and again. About a year ago he brought the car to me and told me:“I want to have a Countach that's really fast and that is so reliable that I can drive it every day.”

The perfectionist proposed several solutions to his client. One of them was the conversion to complete drivetrain from a Murcielago, but „to do this we should have modified the complete tubular space frame. This would have been possible but with only 321 LP 5000 S built this operation was too hard for the owner of the car.”

They finally agreed on an Albrex twinturbo engine based on the original 4754 cm_ twelve-cylinder-two-valve engine. During this conversion there was nearly no bolt untouched on the inner life of the motor and its periphery. A typical case for Gruber's well equipped workshop where he can mill or weld most of his special parts himself.

A complete engine overhauling was part of the works just like the installation of forged high performance pistons which reduce the compression-ratio to turbo-friendly 8.2:1. Stronger cylinder-head gaskets and special inlet and outlet camshafts were also specially manufactured for the Countach turbo drug.

Conrad Gruber doesn't know anymore how much time he has spent alone for the welding of the two stainless steel exhaust manifolds which feed the turbochargers with hot exhaust gases: „My enthusiasm often defeats the working time ticket where the hours for such a conversion shall be added for the customer”, the boss of the two-men operation.

You definitely believe that his love for cars is his impulse, looking forward to the first conversation with the customer after the first drive with the finished car, the pleasure of seeing him and the car again for the first planned service.

But it's a long way to get there. The conversion of an old Lambo V12 with six twin-throat Weber 45 DCOE carburetors to state-of-the-art turbo technology is no Sunday outing. Only a modern injection guarantees impeccable function and so the Tyrolean Gyro Gearloose developed a custom-made, electronically controlled system, which also uses the informations from the lambda sensors of the equally selfmade four-pipe exhaust system including three-way catalysts. Yes, this Countach even has catalysts!

The two Garrett turbochargers are limited to a maximum boost of 0.72 bar with cutely blowing off bypass valves. The precompressed air is cooled down inside a huge, firered intercooler which nearly covers the complete, nicely made injection system including manifold and induction pipes. To provide the intercooler with sufficient cooling air the customizer even manufactured a special engine hood with a broad airbox which rises up above the roof of the car. This part was designed that harmoniously by Gruber that this modification will be identified by the spectator just at second sight - it could have been designed by Bertone this way when they created the original Countach bodywork.

The engine compartment looks attractive and professional - there is no comparison with the tangle of wires and carelessly layed hoses on a standard Countach! „That doesn't only look nice it is also made in a completely different, modern way. Not only the wiring is state-of-the-art also the completey revised cooling systems for water and oil have a much better efficiency”, the constructor told me.

Power is of course the most important topic and of course they took the Murcielago to be the high benchmark. The Albrex twin-turbo engine doesn't want to be left behind: 620 at 6,000 rpm and 700 Nm of maximum torque at 4,900 revs are Conrad Gruber's performance data for the jewel under the red radiator. But the noise of this machine sounds like 1,000 hp and 1,500 Nm...

The white Countach unmistakably disproves the old myth that turbo engines always are much quieter than normally aspirated machines. The V12 couldn't sound more powerful if it slurp fopr air with ist old carburetors through open intake trumpet and would be allowed to breathe out via completely open dragpipes!

But the wonderful noise is just the cream on the apple pie. It is way more important how the engine works on the road. The extra power the Austrian gave to the Lamborghini naturally also required modifications on the power transmission, from time immemorial one of the Achilles' heels of the Italian rocket.

A high performance clutch including sintered-metal linings doesn't really make daily driving with the two-seater car easier but it seems to be able to stand the power of the tuned engine. But to ensure that the clutch doesn't torture the left leg too much while driving rearwards sitting on the side pane l, Gruber upgraded the Countach with a back-up camera, which makes safe manoeuvring from the driver's seat possible.

Of course Gruber doesn't allow the stampede of Mustangs to attack the standard gearbox. But he didn't only reinforce most parts and improved the cooling: he also successfully tried to make changing gear easier by fine tuning the five-speed manual gearbox.

But Gruber's urge to modernize wasn't big enough to replace the „cling-clong“ gate shift control with a new-fangled control via Formula 1 style shifting paddles on the steering-wheel. “but it would be certainly possible to do that“, Gruber's eyes were sparkling with joy when I asked him this question. Gyro Gearloose has picked up the scent… But the updated Countach is a nice job anyway. The turbocharged engine doesn't show any primadonnaish airs. It starts on the first push on the button (!) and idles smoothyl even when the engine is cold. Greeting from the injection and the computer-controlled ignition!

The narrow roads of the Wildschönau are as right for a Lamborghini as a flooded gravel pit for an airplane carrier. And the Austrian police - as is well know - doesn't want to tolerate the natural quick urge to be on the move of a 620 hp sportscar. Nevertheless the Albrex Countach Biturbo can quickly conquer the heart of its pilot. Due to the relatively small turbochargers power is available over the whole range of revs and allthough we couldn't prove it Gruber's driving performance data seem to be quite realistic: 4.0 seconds from 0-100 km/h are hard to beat even today. The top speed of about 300 km/h certainly isn't the engine's maximum. The gear-ratio doesn't allow a higher maximum speed...

But the flat vehicle would be certainly for a higher top speed since Conrad Gruber of course also took care of suspension and brakes. I don't know whether he was inspired by the good old black Bburago Countach 1:18-scale model car that also decorates my display cabinet. This one also had huge wheels more than ten years ago and I certainly wasn't the only one to say: they would never fit into the wheel houses!

Where I know that from? Because the comparatively tiny 15-inch front wheels with their 205/50 VR 15 tires already scratched on the fenders! But how did the good guy manage to house the big, threepiece 18-inch rims with their 225 Michelin rubbers?

“That wasn't an easy job but since we already had dismantled the whole car we could also adapt the wheel houses to these wheels“, the man, who could certainly also be any mother-in-law's dream, told us.

And it's true: no scratching, no brushing. Lots of work that didn't only have a cosmetic reason. The standard 345/45 VR 15 tires for the rear axle, which once were the broadest caliber on this planet, are nearly impossible to get anymore. The second reason is the standard brake system which always has been too much stressed and how the hell should this wirk with a nearly twice as powerful engine?

360 millimeter vented discs and sixpot calipers front and four-pot calipers with 350 discs on the rear axle are the stable alternative. And since it is state-of-the-art today, Gruber also upgraded the Countach with a four-circuit ABS from Bosch.

Beside the wheels the chassis was nearly ok for the tuner. Only a stronger antiroll bar on the rear axle takes care of a more direct feedback from the rear. The client also got offered a power-assisted steering but he wanted to keep the high handling forces in corners which were always typical for the Countach. This also includes the good old raid leather-sport-steering-wheel although an airbag-steering-wheel would have also been possible.

It can be easily confirmed that the operation was successful. The Albrex car unites the spectacular Countach design - did you ever see a hotter rear wing - with current technology that makes the driver much more confident. Of course this car isn't as easy to drive as a modern Murcielago or Gallardo but is a lot more character and makes a juvenile dream come true without annoying sideeffects.

Of course the special varnish with white Seelos Crystal Skin paint, whose clearcoat contains expensive Swarovski crystals which care for colourful effects depending on the insolation, will not be everyone's darling. But already from a five meter distance this gimmick can't be recognized anymore and to be honest: a white Countach always looked most spectacular.

Apart from that only the panel on the mighty center tunnel is different which also contains a kill-switch for ignition and injection. A steel clamp ensures that it won't be activated without reason at driving.

But normally you won't think about using this switch you should be better worried about other things. Those who bring their Countach to a Niehan's therapy to Austria should at least store 100,000 Euros in the small trunk in the noise. Those who don't already have a Countach can get a complete car made by Conrad Gruber. On demand with a Murcielago engine or whatever...

He only doesn't offer the good old mobility we had 20 or 30 years ago. I remembered the entering of a Countach much easier. It is much easier to get into his successor. Seven centimeters difference in height and larger doors can't be discussed away for 40 plus men…

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS Engine: Watercooled V-12-cylinder-two-valve engine with Albrex twin-turbo engine conversion, displacement 4,754 cm_, bore 85.5 mm, stroke 69 mm, max. power 620 hp / 456 kW at 6,000 rpm, max. torque 700 Nm at 4,900 rpm, compression-ratio 8.2:1, max. boost 0.72 bar. Albrex engine tuning with two Garrett turbochargers and Albrex intercooler, Albrex hihg performance exhaust system with three-way catalytic converters, Albrex injection and ignition with ECU.

Transmission: Reinforced five-speed manual gearbox and reinforced clutch, rear-wheel drive.

Chassis: independent suspension fronr and rear with Albrex sport anti-rollbar on the rear axle. Three-piece light alloy wheels, 9Jx18 front with 225/35 ZR 18 tires. 13Jx18 rear with 335/30 ZR 18 tires. Albrex high performance brake system with four-circuit ABS system and vented 360 millimeter discs and six-pot calipers front and vented 350 millimeter discs and four-pot allipers rear.

Performances: 0 - 100 km/h in 4.0 s V/max: about 300 km/h
Conversion price: from about 100,000 Euros
Manufacturer: Conrad Gruber Albrex
Internet: www.albrex.com