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Old Jan 18, 2012 | 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by destaccado
Porsche finished the dilution of their brand with the removal of the Metzger engine from the lineup. It was one thing to start building SUVs and Limousines with the excuse that they were still making fantastic sports cars thanks to the profits that the other lines brought in. Now with the removal of the Metzger -- Porsche doesn't even make a capable sports car for the track anymore. Calling the 991 S as fast as the 997 GT3 around the Nurburgring is laughable considering the 997 GT3 could lap the ring all day long at 10/10's and the 991 S would be lucky to make it a second or third lap doing the same...

I'm sure Porsche will continue to make wonderful GT street cars and SUVs using their long-established good name to further sell out and increase profits. In fact, I wouldn't doubt that now would be an incredible time to buy in to Porsche with their stock currently only at $55. In ten years I can see Porsche being BMW 2.0 and competing for nearly the exact markets.

If I seem a bit butthurt -- it's because I've missed being able to afford a proper Metzger equipped 911 GT3 in Mexico Blue with Euro delivery by about two years
This is what's really driving your point. You missed it. I missed it. Many of us missed it.

Guess what? We gotta get over it. There will be plenty of fine examples on the secondary market.

Businesses (successful ones) evolve. You either evolve with the market, or you GTFO and quietly die off, only to be announced on Jalopnik that the brand is dead.

For those of us who are real track hero's, we always have the option for ponying up for a slightly used Cup Car.
 
Old Jan 18, 2012 | 01:49 PM
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All I can say is that I wish the bolster was half as cool as the original concept in the photo at the top of this article. Saw that car last week, and it is badass.
 
Old Jan 18, 2012 | 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by destaccado
Calling the 991 S as fast as the 997 GT3 around the Nurburgring is laughable considering the 997 GT3 could lap the ring all day long at 10/10's and the 991 S would be lucky to make it a second or third lap doing the same...
Shouldn't we wait and see before rushing to judgement? Granted, the new engine isn't as proven as the Metzger rig, but we shouldn't just assume that because it's new, it sucks. Even with their increasingly profit-driven bottom line, I don't see Porsche going cheap on the 911 engines. In fact, I'm guessing that's the last place they'll cut costs.

If I seem a bit butthurt -- it's because I've missed being able to afford a proper Metzger equipped 911 GT3 in Mexico Blue with Euro delivery by about two years
People were saying the same thing when the 911 switched from air-cooled to water-cooled. Now, how many of us are complaining about water cooling? Things change—that's life. It reminds me of something Valentino Balboni said: Change is the nature of things, just like carburetion gave way to fuel injection. “Even if we lose the odor of the carburetor, if it is time [for change], it is time. Thanks for having been there.”
 
Old Jan 18, 2012 | 03:34 PM
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Valentino Balboni FTW!
 
Old Jan 18, 2012 | 06:48 PM
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However the situation with Porsche's brand image turns out, I'm sure it will be suitable for most. I bet they will still build great cars that are more efficient and faster than they've ever built.

But for me, the best time for Porsche is over- for now. The time of the 987, and 997 that is. Those were both perfect cars in every sense of the word. The 981 and 991 are still great cars, don't get me wrong, but they just don't have the same allure that the 987 and 997 had for me. Note: For me. I'm sure others might think the same of the 981 and 991 eventually. Just as some did of the 993. And the original 911, and the 356, and the 550 Spyder, etc.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is Porsche is a company that will change all the time, some will hate the change, some will love it, but I bet the change will eventually be accepted by all. Just like the wheelbase stretch in 1969, the switch to water cooled engines, and now the 991 being all technoed out with and fitted with and ugly rear end.

We'll all grow to like (maybe not love) the changes, but each of us will all have the cars from Porsches past that we love most. For me, 2005-2011 were great years for Porsche. So were 1948-1996...
 
Old Jan 19, 2012 | 04:43 PM
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what we see in here happened at every 911 model change and will always repeat with every new 911 to be revealed,..
 
Old Jan 20, 2012 | 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by WSC
Shouldn't we wait and see before rushing to judgement? Granted, the new engine isn't as proven as the Metzger rig, but we shouldn't just assume that because it's new, it sucks. Even with their increasingly profit-driven bottom line, I don't see Porsche going cheap on the 911 engines. In fact, I'm guessing that's the last place they'll cut costs.



People were saying the same thing when the 911 switched from air-cooled to water-cooled. Now, how many of us are complaining about water cooling? Things change—that's life. It reminds me of something Valentino Balboni said: Change is the nature of things, just like carburetion gave way to fuel injection. “Even if we lose the odor of the carburetor, if it is time [for change], it is time. Thanks for having been there.”
The "new engine" has been out since 2009. It's a great street motor - it's not a Metzger.

...and if you're guessing the engine is the last place they'd cut costs -- unfortunately, you'd be wrong - it already happened...

"People were saying the same thing when the 911 switched from air-cooled to water-cooled."

No -- people weren't saying the same thing. The switch to air-cooled to water-cooled was a technological improvement that allowed the cars to reach higher levels of performance albeit while killing a bit of the 911 tradition. The switch from the Metzger to the 9a1 does not bring a corresponding performance improvement -- it is a downgrade that lowers costs for Porsche...

One change was done for performance - one was done for profit.
 

Last edited by destaccado; Jan 20, 2012 at 05:41 AM.
Old Jan 20, 2012 | 05:35 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by STOPPIE
This is what's really driving your point. You missed it. I missed it. Many of us missed it.

Guess what? We gotta get over it. There will be plenty of fine examples on the secondary market.

Businesses (successful ones) evolve. You either evolve with the market, or you GTFO and quietly die off, only to be announced on Jalopnik that the brand is dead.

For those of us who are real track hero's, we always have the option for ponying up for a slightly used Cup Car.
I don't have to "get over" anything. I can continue to voice my displeasure with the widespread mainstreaming of the Porsche brand and the loss of their race-bred engineering. Maybe they read these posts and they'll get a clue and restart the Metzger line like they did for the RS 4.0...doubtful but one can hope...
 
Old Jan 20, 2012 | 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ECB
what we see in here happened at every 911 model change and will always repeat with every new 911 to be revealed,..
That's not true at all. It would be hard to argue the 997 wasn't an improvement to the 996 on every level. Just as arguing that the 993 wasn't a vast improvement to the 964 would be hard to do...

The 991 is a car that seems to me designed with the goal of increase production #'s, lowering costs, and ultimately leading to higher profits for Porsche. If I was a shareholder (or *cough* Porsche salesman *cough*) - I'd be ecstatic about the 991. As a (former) 911 enthusiast - I'm extremely disappointed.
 

Last edited by destaccado; Jan 20, 2012 at 05:49 AM.
Old Jan 20, 2012 | 02:46 PM
  #40  
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ok,stop here for a second

before we continue on this one,have you actually driven a 991(S) yet?
 



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