Whoa! V22 Osprey!
Dec 15, 2008 | 08:40 AM
#11
Full of Win.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,295
From: Gobbles Air Force Base
Boy...where to begin. I had the opportunity (previous life) to participate in two of the mishap investigations involving the Osprey. I can still hear that pilot screaming to his death.
Very innovative idea to address a definite mission problem. This thing was first conceived after the Desert One debacle as a solution to infil troops much longer distances without having to refuel. They finally proved this concept in an exercise in Africa recently, after nearly 25 years of development effort. The Osprey did also just come back from it's first operational tour in Iraq, where I've read it performed "flawlessly" though it's mission set was logistical in nature (move x people and y supplies from point A to B.) I'm waiting to see when the Special Ops community actually starts using their variants on actual missions.
The Arizona mishap was by far the worst. 19 men killed in what ultimately did prove to be (mostly) pilot error. That pilot descended too rapidly to the LZ, transitioned to vertical flight and succumbed to vortex ring state. VRS is when you are descending too fast for the rotors to actually produce lift. They literally just chop through the air because the air movement over the rotor blades isn't smooth enough for the rotor blade to produce its lift. No lift = falling rock = people die. It is by far one of the most serious flight conditions for pilots transitioning to the Osprey to be aware of and train for avoidance.
I worked the New River mishap for the Navy Safety Center. That pilot and crew was practicing the Osprey equivalent of touch and gos, i.e. land and then take off immediately, do a turn through the area, rinse repeat. The first three went off without a hitch. As they approached to land for the fourth, what was later determined to be a software glitch caused the nacelles to get stuck in transition from horizontal to vertical flight. My role was to do audio forensic work on the tower recordings to see if we could determine any malfunction with the aircraft. I listened to that recording a few hundred times.
Like I said, I can still hear Lt Col Sweaney screaming "We're going down...." like it was yesterday, and that was Dec 2000.
The Osprey also had extreme political pressure around it. It had been killed once by SecDef, only to get resurrected later, etc. BILLIONS of $$$ spent on development and lots of pressure to show the aircraft performs to specs and the Corps should proceed with the purchase, etc. All of that (unfortunately for anyone aboard) led to a massive investigation involving the falsification of maintenance records. Have to admire the enlisted guy who has the balls to secretly tape the maintenance chiefs meeting where the Squadron XO ORDERS his men to falsify records and do whatever is necessary to help the Corp get to a full rate production purchase decision. Yeah, I did the forensic work on that recording too. That bastard did get court martialed, but barely got a slap on the wrist, nevermind his fully witting superior officers that were allowed to retire. Disgusting.
I'm a pilot. I accept that my plane is a machine and could break, risk my life, etc. at any point in time. I also understand a LOT has been fixed on the Osprey in the last 8 years since that incident.
You won't see me get in one.
Very innovative idea to address a definite mission problem. This thing was first conceived after the Desert One debacle as a solution to infil troops much longer distances without having to refuel. They finally proved this concept in an exercise in Africa recently, after nearly 25 years of development effort. The Osprey did also just come back from it's first operational tour in Iraq, where I've read it performed "flawlessly" though it's mission set was logistical in nature (move x people and y supplies from point A to B.) I'm waiting to see when the Special Ops community actually starts using their variants on actual missions.
The Arizona mishap was by far the worst. 19 men killed in what ultimately did prove to be (mostly) pilot error. That pilot descended too rapidly to the LZ, transitioned to vertical flight and succumbed to vortex ring state. VRS is when you are descending too fast for the rotors to actually produce lift. They literally just chop through the air because the air movement over the rotor blades isn't smooth enough for the rotor blade to produce its lift. No lift = falling rock = people die. It is by far one of the most serious flight conditions for pilots transitioning to the Osprey to be aware of and train for avoidance.
I worked the New River mishap for the Navy Safety Center. That pilot and crew was practicing the Osprey equivalent of touch and gos, i.e. land and then take off immediately, do a turn through the area, rinse repeat. The first three went off without a hitch. As they approached to land for the fourth, what was later determined to be a software glitch caused the nacelles to get stuck in transition from horizontal to vertical flight. My role was to do audio forensic work on the tower recordings to see if we could determine any malfunction with the aircraft. I listened to that recording a few hundred times.
Like I said, I can still hear Lt Col Sweaney screaming "We're going down...." like it was yesterday, and that was Dec 2000.
The Osprey also had extreme political pressure around it. It had been killed once by SecDef, only to get resurrected later, etc. BILLIONS of $$$ spent on development and lots of pressure to show the aircraft performs to specs and the Corps should proceed with the purchase, etc. All of that (unfortunately for anyone aboard) led to a massive investigation involving the falsification of maintenance records. Have to admire the enlisted guy who has the balls to secretly tape the maintenance chiefs meeting where the Squadron XO ORDERS his men to falsify records and do whatever is necessary to help the Corp get to a full rate production purchase decision. Yeah, I did the forensic work on that recording too. That bastard did get court martialed, but barely got a slap on the wrist, nevermind his fully witting superior officers that were allowed to retire. Disgusting.
I'm a pilot. I accept that my plane is a machine and could break, risk my life, etc. at any point in time. I also understand a LOT has been fixed on the Osprey in the last 8 years since that incident.
You won't see me get in one.
Dec 15, 2008 | 06:14 PM
#17
Full of Win.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,295
From: Gobbles Air Force Base
For the same reasons F-18s will still be despite their mishaps, Harriers and theirs, etc. All aircraft have crashed and killed people. It's a machine, it WILL fail at some point. Hopefully the occupants (and those around them) will survive the incident.
Dec 15, 2008 | 06:20 PM
#18
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
The F18 is one of the best engineered and most reliable and proven aircraft ever built however everything will always have a lemon (yes even Porsche). The JSF is marginally better then the F18EA and is 10x more expensive. Now the reason we are buying those vs the F18 is beyond me.
Dec 15, 2008 | 06:43 PM
#19
Full of Win.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,295
From: Gobbles Air Force Base
The F18 is one of the best engineered and most reliable and proven aircraft ever built however everything will always have a lemon (yes even Porsche). The JSF is marginally better then the F18EA and is 10x more expensive. Now the reason we are buying those vs the F18 is beyond me.