Teamspeed.com

Teamspeed.com (https://teamspeed.com/forums/)
-   Aventador | Huracán | Murcielago | Gallardo (https://teamspeed.com/forums/aventador-hurac-n-murcielago-gallardo/)
-   -   The Next Big Thing - Murcielago successor details! (https://teamspeed.com/forums/aventador-hurac-n-murcielago-gallardo/42045-next-big-thing-murcielago-successor-details.html)

allanlambo 06-05-2010 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by giallo sv (Post 632447)
My apprehension regarding the up comming replacement for the Murcielago is based on the fact that the existing V12 motor is being dropped for what i presume will be an Audi developed V12. The evolution of Miura to Countach to Diablo to Murcielago was IMO a seamless transition and an evolution of an evocative motor vehicle. Now we appear to be starting with a clean sheet. I am only suggesting that i hope we are not getting into an era where parent company infuences dominate the charachter of the new car. If the new car is a 'better' LP 560 then i think it would be a tradgedy for Lamborghini. As i said in my earlier post on the subject i am sure it will be cutting edge etc but i hope that the italian flair that distinguishes Lamborghini will not be lost in the mix.

Well, you either have to accept progress, or live in the past and watch everyone pass you by. I personally dont feel a newly designed V12 will be anything less than spectacular and will open the door for many improvements.

shin 06-05-2010 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by allanlambo (Post 632590)
well, You Either Have To Accept Progress, Or Live In The Past And Watch Everyone Pass You By. I Personally Dont Feel A Newly Designed V12 Will Be Anything Less Than Spectacular And Will Open The Door For Many Improvements.

+1,000,000

D55L 06-05-2010 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by allanlambo (Post 632590)
Well, you either have to accept progress, or live in the past and watch everyone pass you by. I personally dont feel a newly designed V12 will be anything less than spectacular and will open the door for many improvements.

Great words Allan, I can second this - the new Lambo has all the chances to be a really great car and a pure Lamborghini but with all the things dictated by the progress. This car is so important for the company's future that I expect it to be really great. Of course we have to wait and see, but I have such feeling.

allanlambo 06-05-2010 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by D55L (Post 632720)
Great words Allan, I can second this - the new Lambo has all the chances to be a really great car and a pure Lamborghini but with all the things dictated by the progress. This car is so important for the company's future that I expect it to be really great. Of course we have to wait and see, but I have such feeling.

I hope its fantastic, as I envision one with a nice Twin Turbo kit! :golfclap:

Alex12de 06-07-2010 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by Ludas (Post 620141)
^^ If Lambo choose not to got with DCT I will be almost as dissapointed as I am about Pagani chosing a shit engine for the Zonda successor. Epic fail!

It will be a Mercedes V12 whats wrong with it???

Alex12de 06-07-2010 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by j09333 (Post 632384)
totally agree! lambo is reliable. ferrari is NOT.

There have been a recall from Lamborghini and despite of that i notice that lately there are a lot of accidents with Lamborghinis...

Ludas 06-07-2010 12:55 PM


Originally Posted by Alex12de (Post 634027)
It will be a Mercedes V12 whats wrong with it???

It's an old and heavy Mercedes twin turbo V12. Heavy weight, turbo lag and dull sound just to name 3 things.

roytoy2003 06-07-2010 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by Alex12de (Post 634032)
There have been a recall from Lamborghini and despite of that i notice that lately there are a lot of accidents with Lamborghinis...

Well, if you are going to state this you need to back it up with facts..Facts are as follows for the USA DOT record keeping:

Just FOR the two makes Lamborghini and Ferrari..

MY 2006-2009 ferrari with total of 9 recalls on various models..UP 21 % since 2002-2005

MY 2006-2009 Lamborghini with total of 4 recalls on various models DOWN
12% from 2002-2005.

As for accidents..I would love to find a data base for that...but right off the bat..Ferrari cars mostly sit in Garages with owners staring at the bright Red paint..Lamborghini's get driven by the owners as they should be..

Kongsved 06-09-2010 07:21 PM

I find it hard to believe that Audi, though being the sensible Germans, would soften and green up the Lambo flagship. I think they know what the big V12 Lambo means to everybody with some automotive knowledge. The Lamborghini is not a sensible car, nor will Audi make Lamborghini make it a sensible car. Yes, they may make it more efficient, but I would be very surprised if it turns out as a blunt, soulless car. What's the economic strategy in that? Lambo owners/buyers'd go elsewhere for their pure motoring experience.
And I don't think the doors' construction or hinging, or the CF monocoque will scare buyers off really.

That's just my 2 cents from Denmark

excess 06-10-2010 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by shin (Post 620523)
I hope the pricing will really be at Lp640 level and not at Lp670-4's.

However one concern for the new car is if buying one of the first year's production, will there be numerous bugs like the old days.. and I'm a bit concerned about the CF chassis.. Ferrari just recently stated that they are not going the CF route (yet) for their mass production cars, because they still have no idea about the longetivity and durability of CF in the long term...

I recall the problem with BMW Z8's chassis (or was it suspension?) melting down but can't remember whether it was a CF or alumunium problem.. as it was BMW's first car using exotic materials.

I agree. Will keep my 670 until the second year of production.First year Diablos and Murcis had a lot of bugs.

roytoy2003 06-15-2010 11:07 AM

There was a nice little gathering here in Seattle at the University of Washington design Lab last night. It is where Lamborghini has all its new designs idea's for Carbon Fiber tested and designed.

Present were Manfred and head Tech designer from Lamborghini along with a few local Lambo owners. A showing of the new LP570-4SL along with insight to new CF items coming out as well..pretty neat stuff in the future.

The lips were pretty tight on the new Flagship car..BUT..after so many questions put to them..I can confirm two things..the rest I am not at liberty to share.

1) There will be no Double Clutch set up. In their opinion it add's to much weight to the car as well as loosing the feel of the up and down shift perfromance.

2) The car will retain the standard up/down siccor doors...for now..costs of design of a lighter door and opening action is to cost prohibative.


The other intresting thing is that China is currently their #1 market, with the average age of a buer bewtween 25-35...where other markets are average age of 35-45.

D55L 06-15-2010 11:45 AM

I have mixed feeling about new V12 has no DCT, those talks about too much weight and so on is more like a excuse from them not the reality. Just look at McLaren MP4-12C Graziano DCT - compact, light and clever, but seems that both Murcielago successor and Pagani C9 will not feature DCT. Interesting what is the structure of doors to make them as light as possibly while retaining traditional scissor system - aluminium frame with CF, something like that could give a needed result. Want to ask also - any hints about engine and performance numbers?

shin 06-15-2010 12:18 PM

I'm really interested in any new info about its pricing.. surely it's not too confidential an info you could share ? :)

Chris75 06-15-2010 12:37 PM

I will stick with what D55L and Roy say!

roytoy2003 06-15-2010 02:36 PM


Originally Posted by shin (Post 640362)
I'm really interested in any new info about its pricing.. surely it's not too confidential an info you could share ? :)

To be quite frank...final pricing has not been set as of yet..constant change with the Euro and our Dollar etc etc..also if it should be base price low option low price car..or a higher optioned higher price car..

My gut feeling in the talks is a lower base car, no options...and let the customer build as they wish to the price they wish.

Ludas 06-15-2010 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by D55L (Post 640350)
I have mixed feeling about new V12 has no DCT, those talks about too much weight and so on is more like a excuse from them not the reality. Just look at McLaren MP4-12C Graziano DCT - compact, light and clever, but seems that both Murcielago successor and Pagani C9 will not feature DCT.

I agree with D, I think the only reason why the new car won't have a DCT is because Lamborghini haven't done their homework.
I don't agree with all about the explanation why a DCT should not be prefered.

cstroked 06-15-2010 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by roytoy2003 (Post 640320)
The other intresting thing is that China is currently their #1 market, with the average age of a buer bewtween 25-35...where other markets are average age of 35-45.

Fvck. I need to move to China.

Shadowman 06-15-2010 07:22 PM


Originally Posted by roytoy2003 (Post 640473)
To be quite frank...final pricing has not been set as of yet..constant change with the Euro and our Dollar etc etc..also if it should be base price low option low price car..or a higher optioned higher price car..

My gut feeling in the talks is a lower base car, no options...and let the customer build as they wish to the price they wish.


I suspect that most in the USA are sold and driven/shipped home rather than ordered as such the dealers will be creating the packages as such if the spread between the base and loaded model is great then the selection and understanding that which one gal has versus another will become key because one could be drawn to the proverbial low price light; buyer beware.

Takes care

Shadowman

Shadowman 06-15-2010 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by Ludas (Post 640512)
I agree with D, I think the only reason why the new car won't have a DCT is because Lamborghini haven't done their homework.
I don't agree with all about the explanation why a DCT should not be prefered.


Or just maybe they have done a great deal of it; DCT is not the end all but rather another approach.

Takes care

Shadowman

Ludas 06-17-2010 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by Shadowman (Post 640693)
Or just maybe they have done a great deal of it; DCT is not the end all but rather another approach.

Takes care

Shadowman

Don't get me wrong Shadowman, I am a huge Lambo fan and there is nothing I wish more than the Murci successor to be a big seller and succsess. Especially regarding the importance of this specific model which might decide the future for the entire company.

However you have to agree with me that by not using a DCT Lambo is going in the exact opposite direction of basically all other supercar producers. McLaren, AMG, Porsche, Ferrari and the sportier models from BMW and Audi are all using a DCT nowadays.

If you look at it objectively there really no downsides except maybe a little heavier weight. However it's not much heavier than a normal clutch. The dryweight of the Mclaren mp4-12c is rumoured to be below 3000 punds.
Quicker shifts mean better performance, better comfort and less fuel consumption.

j09333 06-17-2010 10:31 AM

Transmission has many influences on driving experiences.

I prefer F1 of any maker than pdk of porsche.

Pdk lacks direct feeling and somewhat takes away driver's free will by doing its job too perfect.

You just have to put it into auto to get the best of it.

Never tried California's or 458's dct but there is something special which F1 clutch action and its jerkyness makes.

For me, I would opt for F1 than pdk if pdk is what lambo uses.

Shadowman 06-17-2010 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by Ludas (Post 641705)
Don't get me wrong Shadowman, I am a huge Lambo fan and there is nothing I wish more than the Murci successor to be a big seller and succsess. Especially regarding the importance of this specific model which might decide the future for the entire company.

However you have to agree with me that by not using a DCT Lambo is going in the exact opposite direction of basically all other supercar producers. McLaren, AMG, Porsche, Ferrari and the sportier models from BMW and Audi are all using a DCT nowadays.

If you look at it objectively there really no downsides except maybe a little heavier weight. However it's not much heavier than a normal clutch. The dryweight of the Mclaren mp4-12c is rumoured to be below 3000 punds.
Quicker shifts mean better performance, better comfort and less fuel consumption.

Thank you for your reply

I was not meaning to be blunt but rather change the focus from why is Lamborghini not following another when compared to what is up Lamborghini's proverbial sleeve. The DCT for some may have become the path of least resistance and instead Lamborghini wants something else.

Cost, weight, the ability to integrate into a given design certainly are all factors however in the end there are times it is something yet to be known in this case to us that is a pivotal component of the final decision.

I have no idea as such can only speculate however what my gut tells me is that which is to be presented will make many folks smile.

Thank you again

Takes care

Shadowman

D55L 06-19-2010 04:26 PM

We will see and hear much more in a month time or about so, now we just have to wait a bit. DCT or no DCT, it will very interesting supercar, there is no doubt about that.

Speaking about gearbox, I would definitely prefer the DCT on every supercar which is not just track-oriented ultra-light weapon, especially if they want to make really next generation supercar as was claimed.

As was mentioned by Autocar: ...instead, the new Murcielago may come with the option of a sequential seven-speed manual, with a more conventional seven-speed paddle shift as standard...

If it will not really be so, it is no excuse for Lambo not going DCT way.

ricky 06-19-2010 05:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
could this be it?

Shadowman 06-20-2010 01:48 AM


Originally Posted by D55L (Post 643745)
We will see and hear much more in a month time or about so, now we just have to wait a bit. DCT or no DCT, it will very interesting supercar, there is no doubt about that.

Speaking about gearbox, I would definitely prefer the DCT on every supercar which is not just track-oriented ultra-light weapon, especially if they want to make really next generation supercar as was claimed.

As was mentioned by Autocar: ...instead, the new Murcielago may come with the option of a sequential seven-speed manual, with a more conventional seven-speed paddle shift as standard...

If it will not really be so, it is no excuse for Lambo not going DCT way.

IMO Lamborghini has never been about following another; they have done IMO a great job over the years of remaining separate from the proverbial pack so will they bring DCT into their program; this is at best case a maybe.

Now I will share from personal expertise; I have enjoyed manual boxes all my life and when F1 and then the E-gear was presented to the public I saw it as novel however not my cup-o-Joe. I had a gal with the F1; many years ago and it IMO was not ready for prime time and then I experienced the early E-gear to which I share the same sediments however by the time I purchased an 08 LP640 it was feeling darn nice and the operation of the system within my SV is absolutely “badass”.

Now this does not mean that at times I do not miss hearing the stick clang the gate because there are those times however the sensation of up shifting the E-gear and even more so the downshifts are mechanically and audibly glorious.

IMO the manual box as associated with the current engine management system does not allow for crisp throttle blips but rather they are lazy whereas the computer does one fine job.

So what means will the next generation gal use to migrate the power out of her heart and to her wheels; I do not know however I have every reason to believe that it will be equal to or greater than that within the SV which is as shared “badass”.

Takes care

Shadowman


Nath4N 06-20-2010 04:52 AM


Originally Posted by ricky (Post 643803)
could this be it?

nope, just a rendering done by car magazine.

TommyJames 06-20-2010 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by ricky (Post 643803)
could this be it?

I don't know why this drawing keeps getting circulated. It's plain silly. Look at the passenger cabin. How's anyone expected to actually fit in that thing AND still look forward? You actually think front wheels that large, rear wheels that small would lead to decent handling? It's drawn by someone who doesn't seem to know anything about cars who expanded what he though would look cool. It continues to remind me of an exaggerated feature kids drawing.

d3a 07-20-2010 03:30 AM

still not final-news about?I thought this month could be the right one to see the press-release before unveiling @ paris..

shin 08-09-2010 02:47 AM

Nothing new ??

jpcourt 08-09-2010 11:12 PM

I do love the wheels on that rendering!!

shin 08-13-2010 02:49 AM

Nothing was revealed to selected dealers and clients back in July, I guess this means the Jota will not be ready until 2012 ?

D55L 08-13-2010 03:14 AM

I am on holiday and out of news a bit. Will be back soon enough. The answer I have recieved - no presentations happened, Paris is under consideration, delay is quite possible.

Shadowman 08-13-2010 05:03 PM

I suspect the middle of next year at best for a presentation with the model to follow late in 2011 or early 2012.

This makes the LP670-4 SV such a wonderful moment in time

Takes care

Shadowman

McRae 08-13-2010 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by jpcourt (Post 681539)
I do love the wheels on that rendering!!

Estoque concept rims...indeed...VERY nice!!!

JamesCaton 08-14-2010 12:23 AM

Does it not seem a little silly that they sacrificed the scissor-doors do to weight, then put 21's on it...?
How's that logical? haha

B4rad 08-16-2010 04:00 AM

This latest spyshot shows the scissor doors......

http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/u.../08/Jota02.jpg

D55L 08-16-2010 04:41 AM

Doors will go up, but some sources continue to state that the opening will be a bit different from traditional scissor doors, also doors could be electric opening and closing. I was no a believer in this, but after those spy shots I see that there almost no way to close this door with hands. Also, some source say that transmission will be very unique, not just an updated e-gear. And expect price in Germany to be around EUR 350K plus options. Also there are different statements about launch - this fall or next Geneva.

JamesCaton 08-16-2010 04:43 AM


Originally Posted by D55L (Post 686356)
Doors will go up, but some sources continue to state that the opening will be a bit different from traditional scissor doors, also doors could be electric opening and closing. I was no a believer in this, but after those spy shots I see that there almost no way to close this door with hands. Also, some source say that transmission will be very unique, not just an updated e-gear. And expect price in Germany to be around EUR 350K plus options. Also there are different statements about launch - this fall or next Geneva.

Do you know when the yanks will be able to get our hands on them?

D55L 08-16-2010 04:47 AM

I think Roy is the man who knows about US deliveries more than anyone else here. My bet is that Euro deliveries will start in spring 2011 and US deliveries closer to the mid-2011, may be even as a MY12 model.

a007apl 08-19-2010 12:14 AM

YouTube - Erlkönig 15.08.2010 - Lamborghini Jota (Nähe Lausitzring - Eurospeedway)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 PM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands