Scuderia and M6 seized for doing 120mph, to be auctioned off by Canadian Govt
#41
11-24-2010 | 03:05 PM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 898
From: Istanbul / Turkey
What a stupid law !
If they really wanna foresee potential crimes and prevent with extreme actions like these, they shouldn't even legalize the sale of any car which is capable of exceeding the speed limit.
If they really wanna foresee potential crimes and prevent with extreme actions like these, they shouldn't even legalize the sale of any car which is capable of exceeding the speed limit.
#42
11-24-2010 | 04:43 PM
Thread Starter
| Official CED
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,013
From: Global
My issue is one of property rights-- it's an entirely ludicrous theft of private property, which as far as I can see was based entirely on hearsay. It's a flat out travesty of individual liberty.
The "speed kills" nonsense is another argument, which is oft discredited by anyone with more than two functioning synapses. Is 120 on a public road dangerous? Sometimes, yes. Often times, in vehicles prepared to do said speed, driven by those who are alert and reasonably skilled, it's one heck of a lot less dangerous than barreling along at 85 in a SUV with the braking power of warm cheese while gabbing on a cell phone. Though, if I called the cops every time I saw that happen, my cell bill would be approaching the GDP of a small third world country.
The "speed kills" nonsense is another argument, which is oft discredited by anyone with more than two functioning synapses. Is 120 on a public road dangerous? Sometimes, yes. Often times, in vehicles prepared to do said speed, driven by those who are alert and reasonably skilled, it's one heck of a lot less dangerous than barreling along at 85 in a SUV with the braking power of warm cheese while gabbing on a cell phone. Though, if I called the cops every time I saw that happen, my cell bill would be approaching the GDP of a small third world country.
#43
11-24-2010 | 04:57 PM
Avatarless
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,775
From: Malibu, CA
Damn, if these laws were everywhere I would imagine that pretty much all of TS would be arrested and shot for speeding. All except Carrara...Well, he probably sped outta CA to get away from all the diversity.... So everyone here should turn themselves in. Bad people.
+1 to the argument that people on their cell phones are more dangerous than speed.
+1 to the argument that people on their cell phones are more dangerous than speed.
#45
11-24-2010 | 08:09 PM
Teamspeed Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,083
From: Toronto/Nairobi
Interesting thoughts from another forum....
After a quick once over of B.C.'s Civil Forfeiture Act, a few observations:
1. My best guess is that the legislation violates the Charter. There is a provision in the Act that states "unlawful activity may be found to have occurred even if no person has been charged... or a person charged was acquitted of all charges". Admittedly, it may take some time before someone with the interest and resources to challenge the legality of the Act on this basis, but sooner or later, it will happen. This might be a good test case;
2. Don't believe everything the media prints. At the moment, the RCMP have merely indicated to the media that they intend to make an application to net them 100k. They still need to make the application, and then convince a judge that their request is "in the interests of justice" given all of the circumstances;
3. The Act is subject to the Personal Property Security Act, which means if the vehicle is leased or financed, any proceeds realized will first go to the lien holder;
4. Any order that is granted is subject to the interest of an "uninvolved interest holder" in the property, which would include the finance company, as well as the owner of the vehicle. If the car is owned by the driver's father, and he did not participate in the illegal activity, his interest is protected.
There are more points to make, but you get the jist....
So, my guess is that the RCMP are utilizing the media to bring attention to the issue, scare prospective drivers, owner's leasing companies, parents, etc. to deter this type of behaviour and make it even more "socially unacceptable".
Remember, law enforcement is their own advocate, with their own objectives (usually aligned with the public good). The RCMP are not required to give all of the facts or their assessment of what the law is, how it works, or whether they (the director under the Act) will be successful in their application. In the mean time, they have a powerful story. By their own admission, they indicated "impounding" the car was not enough, so they tried to utilize the Act to make it more punitive on the driver/owner, etc., regardless of what the final determination is.
Given that the owner/leasing company has a couple hundred K at stake, I'm sure they will retain counsel, contest the application and get their interest back.
1. My best guess is that the legislation violates the Charter. There is a provision in the Act that states "unlawful activity may be found to have occurred even if no person has been charged... or a person charged was acquitted of all charges". Admittedly, it may take some time before someone with the interest and resources to challenge the legality of the Act on this basis, but sooner or later, it will happen. This might be a good test case;
2. Don't believe everything the media prints. At the moment, the RCMP have merely indicated to the media that they intend to make an application to net them 100k. They still need to make the application, and then convince a judge that their request is "in the interests of justice" given all of the circumstances;
3. The Act is subject to the Personal Property Security Act, which means if the vehicle is leased or financed, any proceeds realized will first go to the lien holder;
4. Any order that is granted is subject to the interest of an "uninvolved interest holder" in the property, which would include the finance company, as well as the owner of the vehicle. If the car is owned by the driver's father, and he did not participate in the illegal activity, his interest is protected.
There are more points to make, but you get the jist....
So, my guess is that the RCMP are utilizing the media to bring attention to the issue, scare prospective drivers, owner's leasing companies, parents, etc. to deter this type of behaviour and make it even more "socially unacceptable".
Remember, law enforcement is their own advocate, with their own objectives (usually aligned with the public good). The RCMP are not required to give all of the facts or their assessment of what the law is, how it works, or whether they (the director under the Act) will be successful in their application. In the mean time, they have a powerful story. By their own admission, they indicated "impounding" the car was not enough, so they tried to utilize the Act to make it more punitive on the driver/owner, etc., regardless of what the final determination is.
Given that the owner/leasing company has a couple hundred K at stake, I'm sure they will retain counsel, contest the application and get their interest back.
#47
11-24-2010 | 09:47 PM
I don't even really like Obama.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,068
From: Vancouver, B.C.
This law existed prior to them deciding to race. It did not stop them and it will not stop others. People have always and will always act like idiots. All it did was establish that in BC, Canada people have no actual rights to ownership of their earned property but rather said property belongs to politicians driven to create populist laws that would simply not fly elsewhere.
#48
11-24-2010 | 09:57 PM
Rolex Fanboy
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,638
From: In a dream....please don't wake me
These kids were driving too fast and should have a large fine. They were driving way too fast, 3 times the speed limit in traffic is crazy. Kids like these give the rest of exotic owners a bad name.
My understanding from my canadian bc friends is there were way more than a handful of witnesses.
#49
11-25-2010 | 01:08 AM
Teamspeed Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 503
From: PHX/PIE/OMA ---> Yes, all three
I'm disgusted.
"Had one of those vehicles lost control ..."
But none of them did, did they now?
Frankly, when I'm on the road on my bike I'm not scared by people speeding, especially in nicer cars. Because odds are they are aware of what doing 100+ means. On the other hand the soccer mom who merges onto me without her flasher ... she's the one endangering others, and she's the one who will be interrupting her phone blabbering to call the cops "omg there are sportscars going soooooooooo fast that's so dangerous".
Bullshit.
"Had one of those vehicles lost control ..."
But none of them did, did they now?
Frankly, when I'm on the road on my bike I'm not scared by people speeding, especially in nicer cars. Because odds are they are aware of what doing 100+ means. On the other hand the soccer mom who merges onto me without her flasher ... she's the one endangering others, and she's the one who will be interrupting her phone blabbering to call the cops "omg there are sportscars going soooooooooo fast that's so dangerous".
Bullshit.
I agree about prostitution remark as well.
and I call the seizure "Highway Robbery"
#50
11-25-2010 | 10:31 AM
Teamspeed's Florida Ambassador
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,085
From: Mayamee
That's bullshit! They basically stole those cars based on bullshit. At least they had the courtesy to give them back some of their money. Jesus.
It's important to say that it's dangerous to speed on public roads, but we would all (every one of us) be hypocrites if we said we didn't do that as well. I am definitely guilty of speeding as well, I don't get into silly street races though, I do speed when I think there's less risk. I like to think that I know what I'm doing and I would say that I'm responsible about being irresponsible.
I really hope they don't begin to do that here. If they took my car after passing 100mph I would have lost many many cars. I'm glad I don't live in VA though.
It's important to say that it's dangerous to speed on public roads, but we would all (every one of us) be hypocrites if we said we didn't do that as well. I am definitely guilty of speeding as well, I don't get into silly street races though, I do speed when I think there's less risk. I like to think that I know what I'm doing and I would say that I'm responsible about being irresponsible.
I really hope they don't begin to do that here. If they took my car after passing 100mph I would have lost many many cars. I'm glad I don't live in VA though.