[UPDATED 2-11-10] Barrister's Ferrari 360 Modena Buyer's Guide - Teamspeed.com



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Old 05-05-2009, 09:34 PM
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Post [UPDATED 2-11-10] Barrister's Ferrari 360 Modena Buyer's Guide

I UPDATED THIS BUYER'S GUIDE ON FEBRUARY 11, 2010 WITH SOME USEFUL INFORMATION ABOUT SOME RECENT REPAIRS.

SEE POST #77 FOR THE UPDATED INFORMATION OR JUST HIT THIS LINK:
https://teamspeed.com/forums/458-430...tml#post522982
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My rosso corsa on tan 2004 360 Modena features power Daytona seats, F1 gearbox, Scuderia shields, upgraded Hi-Fi stereo, red brake calipers, rear shelf, leather headliner, challenge grills in the front and rear and modular wheels. It had 9800 miles and was a 2 owner car. I purchased it from a dealer in Anaheim.



Introduction

As many of you know, about a month back I purchased a 2004 Ferrari 360 Modena. It is the car pictured above. As anyone should do before buying a new car - particularly a Ferrari - I did my homework. I read every article I could find on the 360 Modena, talked to many owners of the car, took many test drives of both the F1 gearbox and 6-speed manual, and shopped high and low for the right configuration, options, condition and price. I finally found nearly the perfect car at a dealer in Anaheim. I was proud and happy to share the experience of new Ferrari ownership with my friends on TS.

Since then, many members have asked me about what type of research I did and what I learned about the car prior to pulling the trigger on the purchase. The main questions were about maintenance and reliability. In short, people are terrified of buying a lemon. Armed with the right knowledge, however, you can minimize your chances of getting stuck with a maintenance nightmare to almost zero and get a great deal at the same time.

There has never been a better time to buy a Ferrari and the best deals right now are on the 360 Modena. Max depreciation coupled with the tough economy make this a true buyer’s market.

To help out those who are looking to buy – and just by way of information for those who love to learn about supercars in general – below is a summary of what I found out about the Ferrari 360 Modena prior to buying one. I hope that this information is useful for anyone who may be in the market for the same car. Also, much of the information stands true for buying any model Ferrari.

Much of the information contained in this Guide is a summary of the many articles and books I read about the car. If any of you are interested in the source material, just let me know.



Why a 360 Modena?

Many people ask why I purchased a 360 Modena over an F430. Well, I love the F430. It makes me swoon. But it is kind of like the hot girl in high school who you don't feel worthy to date! So I picked up her also attractive but less demanding friend. But seriously! I love the look of the 360 Modena maybe even a bit better than the F430. But the F430 has the 360 licked in terms of performance. I think that the 360 is a great first Ferrari. It is a nice and easy introduction to the brand along with its quirks and gremlins.

But the primary reason I decided on the 360 Modena was because I think they are fully depreciated. The F430 still has some depreciation left in it until its replacement debuts. Thus the deals are not quite as good on the F430. I think that if you can afford the F430, you should probably do it. Getting 80 more bhp and a chain system rather than a belt system (more on that below) is well worth it. But if you are looking for the best deal out there on a Ferrari right now, the 360 Modena is it.

I see myself keeping the 360 Modena for a year or so and then likely moving on to an F430. I can't wait!!



Model Information

The 360 Modena debuted at the Geneva Motor Show in 1999. Ferrari intended the 360 Modena to supersede its acclaimed F355 model. This was no easy task. The F355 had been heralded as the world's finest sports car and maintained a cult following. Perhaps this is why Ferrari chose to fully redesign the 360 Modena rather than make it a mere evolution of the F355. The result was the first Ferrari to feature an all aluminum body and space frame. The move to aluminum allowed Ferrari to make the 360 Modena almost 30% lighter than the F355 while gaining 40% in body rigidity. To achieve this engineering magic, Ferrari partnered with Alcoa Aluminum and created an entirely new type of process and technology.

The 360 Modena also signaled Ferrari's new focus on aerodynamics. This is reflected in the bold new styling. The 360 Modena's lines seem to largely disguise the fact that it is much larger than the F355. Gone was the iconic front radiator grill an in its place twin radiators placed in the wheel arches. The redesign also allowed for a much larger luggage compartment - a goal that then new Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo made a top priority. From the ground up, Luca wanted the new Ferrari designed, engineered and built so that it could be driven every day and for long distances. Ferrari engineers then spent over 5,000 hours in the wind tunnel tuning the aero kit to perfection. The aerodynamic focus resulted in 4 times the downforce at high speeds than that generated by the F355. This gave the 360 Modena more control and maneuverability.

But the radical redesign did not impress everyone. Some long-time Ferrari owners found it to be uncharacteristically flamboyant. These owners – along with some auto journalists – were critical of Ferrari designer Pininfarina for making the car un-Ferrari-like. Over the years, however, the consensus has been that the 360 Modena may be the most beautiful Ferrari ever made.

Along with a renewed focus on aerodynamics, the 360 Modena also received a completely redesigned engine. The Tipo F131B increased to 3586 cc and power was bumped to 400 bhp - an incredible 112 bhp per liter. This also brought increases in low and high end torque. Other improvements included larger valves, variable phase timing for the exhaust valves, and combustion chamber improvement. Yet, the most important change was the use of variable geometry which independently manages both cylinder banks.

All of this innovation resulted in a car that hits 60 mph in 4.1 seconds with the F1 transmission and 4.4 seconds with the 6-speed manual. The 360 Modena will hit 186 mph at 8500 RPMs. And - of course - it produces that sublime music that we all know to be the Ferrari sound.



Interior Tech

The 360 Modena does not have a lot of bells and whistles. In fact, it does not have cruise control or automatic headlamps. There is no fancy digital HUD, no navigation system and no voice operated gadgetry. In fact, all you can display on the HUD is the outside temperature! The clock is in 24-hour time and can’t be changed and is placed high above your head where you can’t even see it! The air conditioning system is powerful but not intuitive at all. The Becker stock head unit and 6 CD changer is nothing to write home about. In fact, when playing CDs it will actually skip when you hit a bump in the road! The stereo speakers are nice and can be tuned to be downright amazing. But you must pay extra for the subwoofer and midrange units.

I am 6'0 tall and the car accommodates my height with no problems. I have had passengers as tall as 6'4 have no trouble either. But the driver's seat seems to sit a bit higher than the passenger seat. The 8-way power Daytona seats are great and give you more than enough options. The sunshades are suede but smallish. The glove box is of average size. The gas cap and front boot release switches are behind the center console and difficult to access.

Interior creature comforts is one area that Ferrari just didn’t put much effort into with the car. It just underscores that the 360 Modena is all about performance and the driving experience. In that regard, it does not disappoint.



Driving Impressions

Before I actually bought my 360 Modena I test drove several. The first thing that I noticed was how large the car feels. The 360 Modena is actually wider than the F355 and the F550 Maranello. Having driven a Porsche 997 Turbo for a bit over a year, I expected to feel cramped in the 360. Not so. The car is actually much longer and wider than the Porsche. It fully accommodates me – and I am a very large man. Nevertheless, it sits so low to the ground that it still presents a challenge to ease into. The seats are very comfortable. My 360 Modena was optioned with the power Daytona leather seats – an option I would not have purchased the car without. But even the basic seat provides ample lumbar support and is not too hard on the eyes either. I even had the opportunity to test drive a 360 Modena with the sport seats. These are even lower to the ground than the basic or Daytona seats. They cup your body well, however, and are a bit more rigid. Even after long drives the seats stay comfortable - something I can't say for the Lambos I have ridden in.

Starting with the 360 Modena Ferrari began showing a preference for the F1 gearbox over the traditional 6-speed manual. The paddle shifting system is rather intuitive - pull right to shift up, left to shift down and pull both paddles towards you to go into neutral. A window within the speedometer tells you what gear you are in. The F1 gearbox also has a fully auto mode that will shift for you. Even in manual mode, however, the F1 gearbox will downshift automatically so that the engine doesn’t die but it will not up shift automatically. For reverse, there is a small t-shaped lever in the center console that must be lifted and pulled back. The steering wheel is completely adjustable to fit any driver’s liking.

The dash features 2 main analogue meters. Like the Porsche, the largest and main meter is the rev counter. A smaller dial houses the speedometer. If I had one initial complaint about the 360 Modena, it was that the speedometer is absolutely impossible to read. It jumps in increments of 20 mph with no meter in between and seems to lag far behind the acceleration of the car. To make matters worse, there is no digital option to save you. It really takes some getting used to. All of the traditional warning lights are in the dash. As you drive you find yourself praying that none of them ever come on!

Starting the 360 Modena can be an adventure to say the least. There is a rather elaborate and sketchy procedure that must be followed in order to get the car running. You must first insert the key. Then hit the “alarm” button on the key fob to disengage the immobilizer. Then turn the key clockwise ¼ turn. This results in an electronic systems check. Once everything lights up with a cacophony of beeps and blips, the “Check OK” lamp lights up and you can then turn the key the rest of the way. At this point the engine should start up. If you have missed any of these steps in the sequence, however, the engine will not turn over. You can be left with a pretty dumb look on your face if you are with friends and your new Ferrari sounds like a farm tractor that won’t turn over. A few blown start-ups are to be expected though. Just don’t keep the key turned all the way for more than about 4 seconds without letting off. If the car doesn’t turn over in the first few seconds, then you have likely missed a step in the start-up procedure. After a few tries you get the hang of it.

Once you get the start-up procedure right the 360 Modena will fire up with a baritone growl. The V8 engine literally roars into life. Pull the right paddle to engage first gear and squeeze the throttle. Something that all new Ferrari owners have to get used to with the F1 transmission is how the car takes off. If you give the car just a little gas, it will not move an inch but if the throttle is pushed too hard the car leaps forward. This is especially hair raising if you are in reverse or trying to pull out of a tight garage or parking space. Heavy traffic can also be a challenge because of the car’s touchy take off. But after a while you learn to modulate the throttle such that it can be easily managed. It definitely takes some getting used to.

When the car is out on the open road you are really in for a treat. If you have been driving sports cars with a lot of low end torque – like a Porsche or Mercedes – then the 360 Modena may not impress you at first. At low RPMs the car is downright docile. So much so that you may wonder what all the fuss is about. But once you get on the gas it is a whole different story. The revs rise more rapidly than the Porsche and the redline is much more accessible. You really have to watch the rev counter in gears 1, 2, and 3 to be sure that you don’t live in the red. Unlike other cars that seem to feel compromised at the redline, the 360 Modena seems to thrive at it. If you take it up all the way on each gear shift you will be rewarded with brutal power and a symphony of sound. Also unlike the Porsche or Mercedes, there is no drop in pulling power in 5th and 6th gears. In fact, when out on the highway, I will often shift down to 5th gear to pass another car. I end up screaming past so quickly that I realize I didn’t need any more than 6th. At very high speeds – above 120 mph – the 360 Modena really shines. In other sports cars, when you begin to move above 100 mph, the driver can begin to lose confidence in his or her ability to control the car. Not in the Ferrari. Where other cars get light in the front end at high speeds, the 360 Modena just gets more solid. I have never lost confidence in the car – even at around 150 mph.

After driving the Porsche 997 Turbo for a year, I did not think that the 360 Modena’s handling would impress me. I was wrong. The steering in the car is more direct than the Porsche and the electronic assist is not overbearing. The car is strung very tightly, however, and it will react to every bump in the road. This is where the F1 transmission shows its merit. When on a country road at high speed, it is very nice to shift gears without having to take a hand off of the steering wheel. The car’s stopping power is incredible. I have yet to experience any brake fade in the car no matter how hard I push it. The 360 Modena has a normal driving mode and a Sport mode. Engaging the Sport mode really enhances the driving experience. The car becomes tighter and shifts much more quickly.

In the end I must say that the 360 Modena is everything I had hoped it would be. Docile and easy to manage at low speeds, its instant power and a great exhaust note also make for one hell of a ride! Be sure that when you test drive it you are able to take it through its proper paces – like it was meant to be driven. That is the only way to truly experience all that the car has to offer.



F1 vs. 6-Speed

Probably the biggest dilemma that sports car lovers have when moving to a Ferrari is whether or not to get one with an F1 gearbox or a 6-speed manual transmission. The F355 was the first Ferrari to offer the F1 gearbox and the 360 Modena was the first Ferrari where it was pushed hard. The majority of 360s shipped with the F1 configuration. The classic 6-speed gated shifter is available in only 10% - 20% of cars produced. The answer to the question “which one should I get” is simple: whatever suits you. There are just as many Ferrari owners that will advocate for the F1 as there are that say the 6-speed is the better option. You must drive both cars and choose the one that fits your driving style. Yet there are some basic pros and cons of the two. The F1 shifts faster than the manual – at an amazing 150 milliseconds. Control is better with the F1 because your hands never have to leave the steering wheel when shifting. The F1 also has a full auto mode that does not require any input from the paddles. This is great if you ever want to let your spouse drive the car. On the other hand, the manual offers the classic Ferrari feel with its timeless gated shifter. Also, rowing through gears can be fun, whereas clicking paddles can get pretty old.

For me the choice may have been a bit simpler than for most. I have a Porsche 997 Turbo as my daily driver that features a 6-speed manual gearbox. Thus, I get my fill on a daily basis of rowing through gears. So the F1 is a nice change of pace. Plus, I love the technology behind the F1 gearbox. It is straight out of the Formula 1 cars that Ferrari produces. That appeals to me. When you hit 8500 RPMs and hit that paddle without even removing your foot from the gas pedal, it will hook you. But you must keep in mind that the F1 clutch wears down much more quickly than the 6-speed clutch – sometimes as low as 5,000 miles if you drive it hard all the time. So maintenance is something to consider with the F1 transmission. More about that later.



Ferrari 360 Modena vs. Porsche 997 Turbo

As I have mentioned, I also have a 2007 Porsche 997 Turbo. The car has been pretty heavily modified by BBI Autosport and is putting down well over 550 bhp. Because I have both the Porsche and the Ferrari, I often get asked which I prefer. This is not an easy question to answer. Both cars have areas in which they outshine the other. Of course, my Turbo has over 150 bhp more than the Ferrari so it is simply a much faster car in a straight line. The Porsche also has a lot more low end torque – more than twice as much in fact. You will never drive a faster car through gears 1, 2 and 3 than my Turbo. So in a straight line the Porsche wins every time.

Yet, despite its pure grunt, the Porsche really pales in comparison to the Ferrari in every other way. The Ferrari handles better and is much more explosive when leaving a turn – it literally leaps out of corners. After driving the Ferrari the Porsche feels heavy in the turns and does not inspire nearly as much confidence. Being naturally aspirated, the Ferrari has much better throttle response than the twin turbo Porsche. And the Ferrari makes that iconic sound that just can’t be reproduced in any other car. Then there is the look. When I look at my Porsche I get very excited. But it looks very utilitarian. When I look at the Ferrari, I feel pure passion.

It really is an interesting experience to drive both of these cars. If any of you are deliberating between them, come pay me a visit and we will drive in both cars. I think the contrast will shock you. Still, if it ever came down to making a choice, I must admit that I would take the Ferrari.



My Overall Ownership Experience So Far

My overall Ferrari ownership experience has been great so far. In about 6 weeks I have put about 1000 miles on the car! My early satisfaction with the car may be because I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. To remain a sane Ferrari owner, you must prepare yourself for the little quirks and gremlins that pop up in a hand-built automobile. For example, after I had the car for 3-days the Check Engine Light came on. In the Ferrari manual it said that the car had suffered a catastrophic failure and should be towed to the dealer! I called the dealer and they told me that CELs were common in the car, that I shouldn’t worry about it and just drive it until the light goes out! That’s pretty cold comfort.

I immediately drove the car to the dealer and had it checked out. This is where I ran into a very common practice with Ferrari dealers. Instead of reading the error code that is thrown when a CEL appears, the dealer merely flipped an electronic reset switch located in the front boot. If you flip that switch, the ECU is reset and the CEL will go out. But that doesn’t mean that the problem is fixed. This is what the dealer did when I brought my car in for the first CEL appearance. I picked it up and was told all was well. But after a few days – of course – the CEL came back on. I went back to the dealer and told them to do the job right this time. They got their Ferrari trained mechanic on it and he found a couple of simple problems that were easily solved. The main culprit – and this is very common with the 360 – was that the rubber gasket inside of my gas cap had fallen out causing a gas fume sensor to trip. A $300 gas cap later and the CEL has not come on since. The gas cap is the most common cause of frequent CELs. It can be something as simple as not tightening it enough after a fill up. By the way, the dealer paid for my new gas cap.

The other thing that you must always be aware of when driving the 360 Modena is its low ground clearance. This car can rub on almost any speed bump and/or steep driveway. There are protective pads on the underside of the front bumper that give the aluminum body nice protection. But when it rubs your stomach just gets sick. Turning on Sport mode so that the suspension is a bit tighter, taking bumps and drives at an angle and just moving very slowly can help. But it is inevitable that you will scrape it now and then.

Nothing can compare to the feeling of driving a Ferrari. You just feel so much history when you do. Often, as I am driving along, I will see that prancing pony on the steering wheel and think to myself “Holy Crap! I am driving a Ferrari.” That feeling doesn’t seem to go away. It is just a singular experience that makes the hair on the back of my neck rise whenever I think about it. Once you feel it, the high cost of ownership seems a small price to pay. Ferrari is simply the finest cars on the road.



General Buying Advice

Here is a list of general buying tips when shopping for your 360 Modena.

1. Demand to see the service record and maintenance history on any 360 Modena you look at. The first question you should ask the salesman is whether or not the car is due for service. This is particularly true for the major services at 15K and 30K miles. The car is due for its 15K service at the 5-year point regardless of mileage. At these service points the timing and cam belts must be replaced. These services can run around $4K - $7K. If you are getting a particularly good deal on a 360 Modena, it may be because it is due for a major service. If it is, be sure to work it into the price of the car. If the car has any holes in its service history, move on.

2. Get the car personally inspected by a Ferrari certified mechanic. Any trustworthy dealer or private seller will allow you to take the car long enough to get it checked out. Only a trained mechanic can detect everything that may be an issue – things you won’t see. Don’t ever use a mechanic that is hired by or associated with the dealer or private seller – even if the service is offered for free. Have the mechanic tell you how much clutch life is left and that the exhaust manifolds are structurally intact.

3. If the deal is too good to be true, then it is. You should not be paying less than $100K for a 2004 with similar mileage and optioned like mine and no less than $80K for a 1999 of any ilk.

4. Never buy the first car you see. Look at and test drive many.

5. Be sure that the car has all of the original books, tools and records. Things that often go missing are the battery tender, seat covers and the key fobs. You should get two keys and 3 fobs – one red master fob and two black fobs. You use the black fobs and put the red fob in a safe place. If you are not given or lose the red master fob, an expensive re-key of the car will be necessary.

6. Always try to talk to the original owner. Be wary of cars that have had too many owners – e.g., more than 4 in a 5 year period.

7. Try to get a car that has been driven less than 2000 miles a year on average. For a 2004, that would be a car with less than 10,000 miles on it. Mine came in just under that at 9800 miles.

8. Talk to the mechanics that have serviced the car. They will be listed in the service record.



Maintenance and Reliability

Now on to the part that everyone is afraid of – is the car going to break down and cost me a fortune? Actually, the 360 Modena is a very solid car and only has a few common issues.

1. The clutch can and will wear rapidly on the F1.

2. Transmission on pre-2001 F1 models needs upgrading.

3. F1 shift from 1 to 2 can be rough, indicating clutch wear.

4. Camshaft variator on early models were subject to recall.

Less common but other potential issues include:

1. Motor mounts on early models can crack.

2. Gasket leaks (like the one I experienced with my gas cap).

3. Alarm system is sketchy and can cause premature battery wear.

4. Bearings and seals in clutch assembly.

5. Starting in late model 2000s the exhaust manifolds are integrated with precats. If intake cam timings are not set correctly there is a good chance that excess fuel will get dumped into the manifolds causing the catalytic substrate to sinter. Extra care must be taken to set the timing by a degree wheel rather than going with the cam shaft factory marks.

6. When any service is done, the owner must demand a before and after printout of any error codes that were detected and what was done to correct the problem and showing key parameters like exhaust cam angles, cat temperature, oxygen sensors (big gremlin here) and other errors recorded. In short, you must become a bit of an expert on your car.

7. The 360s all still use belts instead of chains. For the F430, Ferrari moved to an all chain system. Thus, for the F430 there is no need to change the timing and cam belts at 15K and 30K miles. This makes the F430 a car with a lower maintenance bill than the 360.

I use a few rules of thumb to be sure that my 360 Modena runs smoothly. First, I do not use my Ferrari as a daily driver. This is not to say that you cannot use it as such – you certainly can and I know many who do. But for me, it would be like eating fillet mignon every day. Even fillet mignon would get old if you ate it every day. When I do drive it, I always let it warm up from a cold start for at least 5 – 10 minutes. At a bare minimum I let it run until it idles down. It is best if you get some heat into the oil before taking it above 4000 RPMs. You don’t want any metal-to-metal contact in the engine. Second, I don’t put any junk miles on the car. I don’t take it on short trips. If I am going to drive it, I wait until I have an opportunity to go at least 30 – 40 miles and really enjoy the ride.

In general, if you adhere to the factory recommended maintenance schedule, the 360 Modena is one of the most reliable Ferrari's on the road. Unfortunately, no maintenance can be done by the owner due to a large amount of proprietary electronics in the car. Very few independent service centers have the diagnostic equipment. Thus the dealer is usually your only option.



Conclusion

Approach the Ferrari buying process with energy and a careful eye. The buying process can be an unforgettable and fun experience and is a big part of Ferrari ownership. If you are lucky enough to afford a factory spec Ferrari or are willing to pay the dealer for a model with merely test miles, then these rules won’t mean a lot to you. But if you are looking for a sweet deal on a used Ferrari – particularly a 360 Modena – the above should be helpful. There are some really bad cars out there that can make your Ferrari ownership a nightmare. But if you follow the guidelines above, ask the right questions and have the car inspected, you won’t get stuck with a problem 360 Modena.

If you ever have any specific questions, feel free to send me an email at [email protected] or send me a PM through the site.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest for the right Ferrari!

Thanks,

Dana
Barrister



Summary


Pros:

1. Ferrari's big breakthrough design.
2. Likely to hold at current values.
3. Great driving car and very comfortable.
4. Great reliability.
5. Performance and responsiveness.
6. Large trunk space.

Cons:

1. All maintenance must be done by the dealer.
2. Wide footprint.
3. Bad economy depreciation.
4. Low front end clearance – speed bumps and steep drives can rub.
5. Alarm system can be temperamental.
6. It’s not a F430.










Last edited by Barrister; 02-12-2010 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:41 PM
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Helluva write-up thanks man, is this what you do with your time now that you are your own boss?
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:45 PM
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Wow great write up D! Sounds like your enjoying ownership of your 360! I like the comparison between your turbo and the 360, in your opinion what do you think of the F430 vs. 360?
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoCEO View Post
in your opinion what do you think of the F430 vs. 360?
About $50,000!

If you can swing the F430 then do it. But the best deals right now are on the 360. They are fully depreciated whereas I think that the F430 can still come down a lot when its replacement debuts.

Let the rep flow my friends! We need to test out the new system.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:49 PM
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As a moderator in training I take issue with you asking for rep... I've been neg repped by mods for something that could have been suggestive of asking for rep...
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrister View Post
About $50,000!

If you can swing the F430 then do it. But the best deals right now are on the 360. They are fully depreciated whereas I think that the F430 can still come down a lot when its replacement debuts.

Let the rep flow my friends! We need to test out the new system.
Tried to throw you some rep, it says I have to spread some around first!
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:54 PM
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awesome writeup...really enjoyed reading it...
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrister View Post
About $50,000!

If you can swing the F430 then do it. But the best deals right now are on the 360. They are fully depreciated whereas I think that the F430 can still come down a lot when its replacement debuts.

Let the rep flow my friends! We need to test out the new system.
repped...for a truly awesome and thought-out writeup
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC4S View Post
As a moderator in training I take issue with you asking for rep... I've been neg repped by mods for something that could have been suggestive of asking for rep...
You love me too much to take issue with me!

And if you read closely, I never told you to rep ME.
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  #10  
Old 05-05-2009, 09:58 PM
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Seriously. Change it.
 
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Excellent review.

To address your "Its not a 430" comment under the "cons" section. I feel very strongly that 15-20 years from now the 360 will be a more desirable car, with the 360CS as the collector's gem/must have.....

The 360 is much better looking, much better sounding, and almost as fast. Its shortcomings compared to the 430 will most likely be looked at as "charm" and "character" The 360 is the modern 308/328 I think the 430 will go down in history as the 348 of the era. I think the coming 450 will be one day looked at as the 355 of the modern era. Only time will tell......

What are all of your thoughts?
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