Switzer GT2 R850 Package is DONE - 783 RWHP
 

Just got a phone call from Tym a few minutes ago. He is finalizing the race gas tune (R850) on my 997 GT2. I wanted to optimize my car for regular pump gas (93 octane) since i will be running it on pump gas most of the time. However, i also wanted the option of running race gas for those few occassions where the extra ponies were needed. Since the P800 (P = pump) has been installed, i have logged over 3000 miles on the car. So far, the car has performed flawlessly. On the P800 tune, the car makes 703 rwhp on a dyno jet. Tym has just finished the race gas tune and has let me know the car made 783 rwhp on C16 race gas at 26 psi of boost. With a conservative drivetrain loss of 10%, the GT2 is making 870 HP at the crank. I will be posting the dyno sheet as soon as i get it from Tym. Hopefully, I will be able to post 60 - 130 times soon. The GT2 went 6.06 s on 93 octane. So we are definitely hoping to get into the 5's. This entire package is a bolt on package and no internal modifications are required. Stay tuned! :yahoo:

Jeebus!!!

EDIT: We need video ASAP Pleeez :smilie:

Crazy crazy crazy.......all Euro tuned cars need rods over 830NM or they bend, yours would bend if you ever managed to give it some "Euro use", example below:
Left scale in mph not kph BTW ;)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...0milesbahn.jpg

maybe Euro tuners use a different tuning strategy. i don't know. we have many P800 cars out on the road (93 octane pump gas running 700 rwhp) running safely. my sledgehammer is also running with no problem and it is making 850 rwhp on stock internals.

imo, the main difference is ; in Europe, people always can do top speeds in autobahns. and whenever we roll, the race starts at 50 km/h and doesn't end before 300 km/h. American's usually run 60-130 mph runs and that's it.

tym went out to log the car. the first 60 - 130 was a 5.7s with one shift. unfortunately, 2nd gear just blows the tires away so it is difficult to do a 2 shift run. this was also with 2 people in the car.

very good. You should see somewhere 5,3 - 5,4 with one person, 1/4 tank of gas and on a cold weather.

Amazing and congrats DK. I can't wait to check out the car in person sometime.

Tym never ceases to amaze me.

Paul

Amazing! I really cant wait to see what a 997 Turbo with R850 can 60-130 with the advantage of all wheel drive?!? I think a low 5 is in the cards. Tym/DK again great work gents and let me know when I can pick mine up :)

Toby, I think your data is not correct. Considering the margin of safety that most tuners give (especially Ruf, who offers warranties on their engine kits), the stock rods on the GT2/TT can probably take a beating higher than what you are suggesting. Ruf 600 (850NM)...or Evotech 600 (840NM)...or TechArt (880NM)...all are reputable German tuners offering torque beyond your stated limit of 830NM...they would never off a kit without some margin of safety. My guess is that the rods for both engines can take a beating beyond your numbers safetly.

The Ruf and Techart will include rods at these levels, I don't know much about Evotech. I know RS were tuning to 830NM as a "safe" level and after sustained 'bahn use the cars have ended up needing rods...... As you probably know, I just had mine done and there was no option of higher peak torque (than 830NM) without rods and actually I didn't want any more, I wanted to be able to use the torque (interesting hearing about DK's 2nd gear traction issues - BTDT becomes a bore).
I am thinking it is the torque curve on DK's engine (slowly rising with the big turbos and peaking after 5000rpm) which is contributing significantly to their staying straight although those 60-130 times are phenominal and there must be serious torque coming through to run those numbers...... I sincerely hope the rods hold but all I know says the clock will be ticking if this torque is used often !

Ruf and TechArt do not do any internals with those two kits. In fact, the only internals that Ruf does is with an engine swap to the RT12/S engine. The 600 package doeds NOT include internals...I am certain as it is the next step in my upgrade path this winter.

Yes you are right (I just looked at the respective kits - jeeez the Ruf one is steep - I thought at that price rods were included !)

OK, I think we are clutching at straws a bit here since it is down to how the torque is measured..... for example on my new set up RS quoted (and certified on the final dyno chart) 827NM. Now being an anorak I insisted on getting the data sheet which I know they produce (I spotted these sheets while sniffing around the dyno room !) this sheets shows lots of other data like boost lambda IAT etc...

Now RS have corrected my torque to DIN using the ambient test cell air temperature as the input for the CF (it was 27degC). During the actual full power test the IAT was varied using the water cooled intercooler and if one corrects to the actual IAT used the numbers are all slightly different and pertinently the peak torque comes out at 844NM.

What is interesting is on previous engines RS have done for me even THEY calculated DIN power using the method I employed to give the 844NM - so it just shows how much interpretation there can be even with people who pride themselves as being anally accurate with Porsche hp !

So you see 844NM which on a cold day and overboost could easily be ~880NM...... And conversely for an inefficiently intercooled car its dynoed 850NM could easily be 750NM on the road on a hot day. I guess you are right that I can't be definative about the 830NM limit.

What I can say is that if DKs car is doing those phenominal acceleration times ~6s 60-130mph then regardless of dyno numbers he must be close to the limits.....surely ?

bbyw

Have you seen the test on the Ruf 600 997tt package on this site:
9ii.de einszweidrei.de free cars bikes road tests reviews buying guide 2009

THe Cargraphic 544PS/798NM came out a second faster 100-200kph when tested.... what are your thoughts, are you lusting after those bigger VTGs :) ?

and you want to sell your GT2..........

I took the GT2 for a drive today on the race gas setting. Holy Guacamole!!! Can you say "Baby Sledgehammer". This R850 is one serious package. I am NOT selling/trading my GT2 for the 16M. I can't wait to run the TT Gallardo and hopefully a Veyron. It's gonna be GOOD!!! :spar:

we need some 60-130's on race gas setting :)

That data was pulled from AutoBild against the LP560. We have no idea what the conditions were for either run. But on the same day, that particular Ruf 600 out ran the LP560 to 300kph by 3 seconds...I have other data :)

We will make some runs this week. I suspect a 5.2 - 5.4 run will be possible without too much difficulty.

Congrats to Tym and DK and everyone involved!

DK, perhaps it's time for some stickies on the back of the GT2?

Can't wait for the video from this.. Baby Sledge indeed!

Would this make your GT2 the most powerful in the world?

Great to hear. Hoping for some videos soon.

That is one bad ass GT2 DK. Congrats on the never ending performance mods;) Like I should talk:eek: Great results my friend.

Congratulations to David and Switzer community!!!!

Those euro members just can't stop it!!!

Congrats on your car! But to me it is just a matter of time before you blow it up. I think you need internals done on anything greater than 600 hp.

But seems like it is working for you so far.

The only Euro tuner into "explodamotors" seems to have that area covered. I think you can claim the most powerful in the world "without internals", time bomb spec :yup:


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...3tt/9ff950.jpg

I've been hearing that myth for years, and yet we have over 2 dozen cars running the 700/750 kits (WELL over 600 wheel) with thousands of miles and without issue. Same with the GT2, which has seen more track miles at the hands of pros AND hacks and still has no issue.

If *I* was trying to get crazy sums of money for my builds (Ruf is the guiltiest party, but surely not the ONLY guilty party) telling people they "needed" costly internals to keep things together would sure be a great place to start.

You're 100% right! I still think there is a significant "Ruf tax", but I'll take back my last comment about them being the guiltiest party!!

:respekt:

Mm-mm! That crow sure does taste good!

Well, Jo, I'm not trying to criticize Switzer...I think you're picking the wrong target. Just trying to correct Toby's generalization about connecting rods and maximum torque.

No, I got that - just took me a re-read. Apologies all around. :friends:

Not needed. I know guys see my avitar and sig and think I worship the Temple of Alois...on the contrary...I worship at the Temple of "Which ever tuner gets you from A to B really really fast." lol...

^lol good one.

I see that 9ff package is called GT-95 VTG

Are they getting that much power and still using variable turbine geometry turbos?
I thought one needed to swop to conventional turbos for that kind of power.

What does the Switzer kit use?

everyone is entitled to their own opinion. i have logged over 3500 miles on the GT2 since it had the P800 (pump gas 800 HP) package. i have given it to several professional drivers as well to push the car near its limits on a road course. i have pushed it on a road course on numerous occasion. it has undergone numerous dyno pulls and highway pulls. we will continue to test the durability of the motor at these power levels. eventually, the parts will wear down and fail, but such is the case at any power level.

So we have Toby who states that the rods will bend at 612.09 lb ft.

And we have mb19701964 stating that internals need to be done at 600 hp.

A lot of rennteam and rennlister forum members state that there is no science or evidence on other boards. So lets turn it around. What evidence do you have that the internals need to be done at 600 hp? Or are you just your expert opinion?

There are hundreds of 996TT and 997TTs running well over 600 hp. And how many engines have "blown up." Your claim is statistically implausible.

US tuners and Euro tuners alike don't require engine builds for >600 hp. So lets see the data to backup your belief that you need a build for >600 hp.

Can't wait for some vids.. we need vids!

Ahh I thought 9ff only had the 850 gt2. Do they have any performance #'s on it?

Goodluck, I've been asking for videos for months.

In for vids. Congrats Switzer and DK! Those are awesome numbers.

Would Switzer do a fully built engine if so requested by a customer?

Yes u an see performance #'s only on magazines and thier websites!!

9ff | DE | News | Aktuell

9ff BT-2, Bi-Turbo conversion – 850HP, 920Nm
0-100 in 3,0s
0-200 in 8,7s
0-300 in 18,9s
Höchstgeschwindigkeit 382 km/h

0-200 as quick as SPI TIP 997tt 740hp BOLT-ON KIT!!!

Who need 382km/h for top speed LOL!!!

I wonder how much the 9ff BT-2, Bi-Turbo conversion would cost? LOL

Built the fastest porsches in the world and they can't even beat a gixxer1000

YouTube - Porsche 9ff vs suzuki gsx-r1000

I was having a swipe at 9ff there actually :spar:

9ff have a habit of advertising details of "kits" before they have actually built them - I don't think this 950 VTG kit exists, RS Tuning had some extra big compressor VTGs made and they were problematic, 700PS seems about the current limit.

One has to respect 9ff for their enthusiastic approach and willingness to get involved in self promotion but they are quite unique in Europe in that they will sell these mega high hp engine packages as when they are properly used on the autobahn they inevitably wear out pretty quickly and however many times Jan (owner) tells a customer about 10K mile maintenance it is always a shock when very expensive items need to be replaced (like a set of heads)....9ff also have more than their fair share of horror stories of engines exported which don't live up to expectations......

Hey - I resemble that remark !

I actually conceded that even my new stock rod pusscat runs at 620.59 ft lbs:smilie:

DKs longitudinal G show a large amount of torque which would bend rods if it did that 100 mile autobahn stint I showed on the graph on the front page - His car will never do that and hopefully will be fine....

BTW - who on here has bent rods ?

I have, RS Tuning engine dyno 757NM (557ft lbs) on my 993tt, with a steep torque curve, ran fine for ~10K miles, when it was cracked open for some other work it was "bannana city" and Carrillo time :lol: